Transforming Marketing: Building Meaningful Connections with special guest Guillaume Wiatr

What if you could transform your marketing strategy to not only reach your audience but genuinely resonate with them? In this episode of the Communication Connection Community, we chat with Guillaume Wiatr, the visionary behind Strategic Narrative and founder of MetaHelm, who reveals how he spent over two years guesting on 55 podcasts to build visibility and forge meaningful connections. Guillaume shares his insights on the concept of meaningful marketing, emphasizing the importance of creating value for both the audience and the marketer. We discuss how doing your homework and truly understanding your audience can lead to impactful, lasting client relationships.

Guillaume Wiatr is the creator of Strategic Narrative, the business strategy consulting and coaching methodology for entrepreneurial leaders of professional services firms.

Through his company, MetaHelm, he steers experts, CEOs, and leadership teams to build a successful business they also love by growing Narrative Power, the leadership ability to defy the normal when the normal is wrong.

A former big-firm strategist, Guillaume has also founded four B2B ventures. His expertise is sought by clients ranging from solopreneurs to global organizations like Microsoft, Spencer Stuart, AIG, Symrise, and the Gates Foundation.

Guillaume loves teaching and mentoring entrepreneurs at startup incubators and the University of Washington’s Master of Science in Entrepreneurship, ranked #3 in the US.

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Connect with Guillaume

Website
https://www.metahelm.com/

Social Media
LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/guillaumewiatr/
YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/@guillaumewiatr

Chapters

• 0:04 Meaningful Marketing in Podcasting
• 14:52 Building Meaningful Marketing Connections
• 23:48 The Power of AI in Marketing

Transcript

Carl Richards: 0:04

Welcome to Communication Connection Community the podcaster's podcast. This podcast takes a deep dive into modern day communication strategies in the podcasting space. We chat with interesting people who make the podcasting and speaking spaces exciting and vibrant. We also dive into the podcasting community with news updates, latest trends and topics from this ever-evolving space. So strap in, it's going to be one amazing ride.

Carl Richards: 0:32

Let's dive into today's episode, and today on the podcast, we're talking about marketing.

Carl Richards: 0:38

Now, by design, a podcast is a marketing tool. We're going to take a deeper dive into marketing, though, because there are many aspects about the marketing piece not just for podcasting, but marketing in general that we really need to be cognizant of, and I don't think that, as entrepreneurs and business owners, that we're always doing our due diligence in this space and I'll admit that sometimes I don't either so who better to bring in a guest that can talk about it, who spent a lot of time in this space? Guillaume W is the creator of Strategic Narrative, the business strategy consulting and coaching methodology for entrepreneurial leaders of professional services firms. Through his company, MetaHelm, he steers experts, CEOs and leadership teams to building successful businesses. They also love, by growing narrative power, the leadership ability to defy the normal when the normal is wrong. His expertise is sought by clients ranging from solopreneurs to global organizations such as Microsoft, Spencer Stewart, AIG, Simrise and the Gates Foundation, and many more, and I'm so thrilled to be chatting with him today. Guillaume, welcome to the podcast.

Guillaume Wiatr: 1:47

Carl, it's good to be here. It's very, very good to be here.

Carl Richards: 1:50

I'm so glad you said yes, or I said yes. One or the other Somebody said yes. I guess we both have said yes at some point to having this conversation, and I'm glad that we can do this. I'd like to start by congratulating you because, as a marketing tool if I could just start here you've done something that a lot of podcasters don't do and that you've spent I think you said you spent a year and a half, or maybe even longer, doing guesting on other people's shows, which I'm assuming was not just for the good of your health. I'm assuming it was for marketing or to get the messaging out that you like to share with audiences.

Guillaume Wiatr: 2:21

Yeah, I did it. For two plus years I've been a guest on 55 podcast shows and initially my. The reason why I wanted to do this is because I wanted to gain visibility as a thought leader and a business owner and very quickly also was reminded that it's really about connections, also about practicing and exploring your thinking, your message, as a lot of people do. And I found a lot of meaning in this activity and I'm glad I didn't jump into podcast hosting too quickly. Look for some people's standards. They would say, okay, it's really really slow. It takes you two years to decide if you want to do your podcast. But yeah, it became kind of a recon kind of exercise. But I made so many great connections too, a lot of layers of values in that exercise.

Guillaume Wiatr: 3:10

I'm so glad I did it because I learned a lot. I met some wonderful people, got through super cool processes as far as how to onboard a podcast guest, but also some bad ones I mean some that I would label as bad ones. My experience wasn't great and it's too bad because doing a podcast meaningfully is a lot of work. I know your podcast, carl, is a lot of work and for a guest you know a serious guest. It's also should be also a lot of work, like when I before I get on a show if I don't know the person yet. You know I spend a few weeks listening to the show when I have a chance, taking notes and so on.

Carl Richards: 3:48

Well, congratulations, as I said, for taking that step, that, as you said, a lot of people don't do that, and you're right, there's good onboarding processes and there's some not so good onboarding processes. Hopefully, this one has been pretty good. I mean, I know off microphone. You asked me some questions and I tend to have a very relaxed, laid back approach and I like to have organic conversations as opposed to coming in with a litany of questions. That and this, is always my caution, because in some cases, I don't know the guest, I didn't know you, but until we chatted.

Carl Richards: 4:19

But we now have, we've chatted, we've connected on LinkedIn and some other social platforms, I feel like, and we're almost the same age, so I feel like we're brothers, right, just different mothers, but I feel like that we're very, we're kindred spirits, right, I agree. I think you hit the nail right on the head, though, when you said that there's due diligence, that it doesn't matter what space you're in, whether it's the podcasting space, whether it's whatever level of business or wherever you're at. There's some things that you should be doing about the connection, because the connection leads to the relationships that you're going to build, which leads hopefully leads to clients and even deeper nurtured relationships. So today, I do want to talk about, though, what you peg as meaningful marketing, so I'm going to give you the platform to firstly start off by telling me, in your words I mean, what do you mean by meaningful marketing? What?

Guillaume Wiatr: 5:09

is it? For me, meaningful marketing is the type of marketing that creates equally value for the world outside your prospect, your market, your clients but also for you. It's really the process of creating and sharing material that deeply resonates with your audience. A process of creating and sharing material that deeply resonates with your audience, but also that is helping you explore, clarify and articulate your thoughts in a new way. You're using marketing in that context as a way to find what's possible out there. I think it's a very interesting proposition because a lot of people you know, approach marketing with the belief that they know already what their message is. You know, and I have worked with a lot of writers and coaches and you know on the communication space who were like, okay, great, we're going to do this, fantastic, I mean, what's your message? And I, well, I'm still working on it and, let's be honest, we are all working on our message all the time for the rest of our life. To me, your message is something that evolved and should evolve. It takes a lifetime, you know, for some really, you know notorious thought leader to just really arrive at a spot where they finally get the level of clarity they're hoping for. So this approach, you know that I describe as meaningful public. You know meaningful marketing or publication. Sometimes I say publication.

Guillaume Wiatr: 6:29

It's really an approach that emphasizes genuine self-expression and personal growth and connection with your audience. It's not for everyone. It requires you to be okay to fail and learn. It's probably an approach that will work well with people who are already interested or open to concepts like prototyping or agility. It is also an approach that I always recommend to align with smaller budgets. You know you want to be low budget on purpose scrappy in the initial phases so that you don't get too attached to the results. Because one of the biggest problems I see with my clients as a business coach is they want to dive in and get immediately the $50,000 or $100,000 marketing campaign without having done any tests and therefore they get on that process. But if it doesn't yield the results or if the process is not the right one, they still pursue it because they're too attached to the outcome, because they've paid a lot of money. So that's at a high level. You know some of the principles that I recommend following. You know, to do meaningful marketing.

Carl Richards: 7:40

There's a few things I want to unpack there and thank you so much for that in-depth answer, because I think that having that foundation certainly will help us with the conversation, but I think it's good for people going in to know what is this, and I can give some examples and specifics and how I practice it too, if you will.

Carl Richards: 8:00

Yeah, I'll do it in a minute with that one.

Carl Richards: 8:04

I want to get back to this concept, though, because you mentioned something that I have been advocating since years ago, when I was in Toastmasters.

Carl Richards: 8:13

Every now and again, you would have somebody in the organization who would say I've got a great title for a speech Fantastic, what's it about? What's your talk about? I don't know. I haven't written the talk yet, so that goes back to something that you said about. You know what's the messaging, and you know messaging needs to be clear, but if you're starting at the wrong spot, or if you, you might have the greatest title in the world, but if your messaging is an absolute train wreck, it's not going to get you the result you want, and you need to be clear about what your messaging is going to be in speakers, podcasters, coaches who are going, anyone that's going out there and speaking about what it is that they do which, by the way, as a former speaker, trainer, should be everyone in business, and I'm assuming you agree with me. It should be a tool that you use all the time, but it seems to be a piece that gets missed.

Guillaume Wiatr: 8:59

Yeah, a lot of people want to over-invest in the thinking part of the process and I think that my approach to this, my philosophy, is you discover what you really meant to say after you've delivered the talk sometimes, actually, I'm working with a client right now and he's launching a new business and I have a framework that I call strategic narrative and it's built with four key stories.

Guillaume Wiatr: 9:24

They're typically they're notorious stories and he prepared ideas and wrote stuff down and then, when I asked him to walk through what he wanted to say it was, he told me well, I guess it's completely different from what I intended to do, and he felt bad. He felt like, oh my gosh, it's really you know. I see I'm unclear, I don't know what I want to say, and I reassured him and say this is a normal process. This is everybody has to go through this, and the faster you go through this, the faster you embrace it and the faster you make yourself okay with the discomfort of not knowing what to do in the first place, the faster you get to the meaningful part of delivering a message for marketing purposes.

Carl Richards: 10:08

It's an uncomfortable place to be sometimes. Anyways, I mean most people I think it's like I don't know know 12 of the population is comfortable with public speaking, standing on a stage or speaking in front of a microphone.

Guillaume Wiatr: 10:20

The rest are I read some stats more, like one, like five percent, but yeah, I agree with you.

Carl Richards: 10:26

so I'm in the five percent. That doesn't mind doing it, although I stuttered when I was a kid that's in the earlier podcast, when we merged our two podcasts together. But back in the early days one of the things I talked about was that process of deathly afraid stage fright. It was just debilitating, especially as a young lad. But now I embrace it full on and I don't even think twice about it.

Carl Richards: 10:51

If there's an opportunity to speak if, for example, if I'm at a networking setting and the speaker is late or they're sick or whatever I'll put up my hands. I'll talk for five minutes. That's all I get. I'll say, okay, toastmasters training has been good for that to really locate my messaging, but it's like five minutes I can do it. But I'm really glad that you shared that. I want to get to the examples, but just before you do that and maybe this will lead into the examples you mentioned something interesting when you said it's not for everyone, and I think you explained the why or who it's good for, and maybe the examples that you're going to give will help to solidify that a little bit more. But is there a reason why everyone can't or shouldn't or doesn't embrace this?

Guillaume Wiatr: 11:31

It requires to let go of a lot of preconceived ideas, requires to let go of the preconceived ideas that you know ahead of time exactly what marketing works for people that you know it will take a lot faster than you think. So, in other words, subsequently it requires courage to approach this technique with the mindset of all I know is that I know nothing. You know from the famous philosophers, right? So it's like kind of exploring, exploring in your marketing what might be some, some thoughts that are meaningful to people and meaningful to you, and so it's going to require quite a bit of emotional labor to execute, such as being able to email. So, yes, it does lead into some practical examples. So one of the things that I have done for many, many years it's to email at a high frequency your thoughts of the day, or vlog, you know video blog, which I do now five days a week, almost five days a week on YouTube, and considering that your marketing initially are just a bunch of seed ideas that you plant and you disseminate around you and you see what resonates with your audience, and then you will dabble down and continue to repeat yourself and invest on the ideas that will be interesting to structure because your audience wants to hear more about them.

Guillaume Wiatr: 12:56

So that's why it's not for everyone it's. You know, a lot of people can't accept that. They want to do marketing that is a lot more, a lot less organic. But in my approach, which is, at the core, based on authenticity, we take the time to first align with our audience. That's a key, key thing, especially for people who run companies that are based on knowledge and expertise and who see themselves running those businesses or being part of those businesses for a long time and they're really passionate about the expertise they deliver. That's the time of marketing that aligns typically a lot better with their values, with their values.

Carl Richards: 13:38

Shouldn't that be a given for any business or organization, though, you should be aligning with your audience.

Guillaume Wiatr: 13:44

Otherwise, if you're not in alignment, you're not connecting it should, carl, but there's a difference between what people need and what people want, and you and I are communications and marketing. We're experts, some people would say, and experts are very good at figuring out what people need, but not always what people want, and that's why I say that's not necessarily what you will want. If you're considering doing marketing, or if you're working with a marketing department or building one or any, you know, any connection you have with my, that's not probably not what you will want, right? You will probably want the fast roi creek recipes and uh, yeah, oh yeah, let's, let's, let's buy this ai robots that is going to connect me with 10 000 people a month who, by the way, don't care about what you have to say, but that's okay, I get the number number. So and I'm mentioning this because that's also what I did, carl Several years ago somebody approached me to bolt on this robot on my LinkedIn profile and it was a very compelling proposition, and I ended up with so many connections that, on appearance, were great.

Guillaume Wiatr: 14:52

I was so excited People could care less, like no one could care really about what I'd say. So I scratched that. I deleted thousands of connections on LinkedIn and now I actually cap it to 1000 on purpose, because I really believe in the power of those meaningful connections. Everyone in my network I know, I know what they do, I can message them and therefore I can run ideas by them. I can test things. I can message them and therefore I can run ideas by them. I can test things, I can help them. Hence why I have a thriving business, because it's really built on that idea that my marketing has to be meaningful. First.

Carl Richards: 15:24

I have to, as you say, alignment with your audience first, and relationships are easier to manage when you don't have 11 billion connections and you've only got, I mean, a thousand is still a very robust number. You might not know everybody At the same level, for sure, but you certainly have a stronger connection with that thousand than somebody that has 50,000 connections and it's just another tick on the box on your email list or something that is getting out there. So I'm going to actually do that now. Go through my contacts, especially on my social media platform, actually the other platform, facebook. Facebook, yeah, send me the love letter, the love message. What do they say? You're nearing your 5,000 connections. Delete some people if you want to add more, and I'm like wait a minute, how did I get to 5,000? Who have I added? And there's probably hundreds that I've never said anything to and have connected with for whatever reason at the time. So good to note that.

Carl Richards: 16:26

There's something that I wanted to mention, though, because, before we give some examples, if you do want to do that email marketing, daily messages or things that you're sending out For some people I was actually chatting with a colleague this week about email marketing and what's the sweet spot for sending out enough or not enough, or too many because they cited that, oh, I get so many of those and I don't delete them, but I should, or I should unsubscribe and I'm like, well, here's the thing, the difference is there's, or there is a difference, rather, between email messaging that it's all about pitch, pitch, pitch, pitch, pitch, pitch, sell, sell, sell, sell, sell Versus. I think the example you gave was like meaningful messages or video or vlogs or whatever that are being shared, that have a defined purpose.

Guillaume Wiatr: 17:12

My journey in email marketing or in email marketing, started many years ago and first I wanted to, because I'm not a native English speaker. I wanted to. I hired the help of a writer, so I delegated, so I tried the delegation path. It didn't work out with me because it was very slow, very costly. In the end it was not exactly the voice tone that I wanted, although the writer was very skilled. Then I went all. In the end it was not exactly the voice tone that I wanted, although the writer was very skilled. Then I went all the in the opposite direction. I started to email directly myself for seven days, seven days a week, and I did this for one year.

Guillaume Wiatr: 17:44

It's a style that is that is very powerful. A lot, of, a lot of other thought leaders you know seth godin in marketing, if you know, if you know seth godin does it. He's done, he's been doing it for 15 or 20 plus years now. Jonathan Stark is another example. So that's another style that I experimented with and what it did for me is that it really shed a lot of shallow thinking. In the first 50, you just say what kind of is standard? And then you don't run out of ideas. You're like, okay, what could I possibly write about then? And that's when it gets really interesting and valuable, because you dig deeper and you start taking risk in your ideas. Maybe what I'm trying to say is this other thing, but if I say this it's going to be a little controversial. So when I went that route, I started to get a lot of really interesting replies and my open rate started to actually grow.

Guillaume Wiatr: 18:35

Today I write anywhere between one and three times a week and my open rate in my email list is 52% on average. On average, like if you get 15%, it's high. My open rate is it's not a very big list, but when people and the feedback I got is like when I read your emails, I'm wondering how you got to actually read my mind the night before. How did you do that? Like it's exactly in words what I was thinking the day before. Of course, you know the topic happened to be the right one, but that's what I've been by meaningful marketing. So you can do that through email, which is the platform I highly recommend.

Guillaume Wiatr: 19:10

Today. There are things like Substack that will accelerate the process, so it's also a very good platform Easier, you know, more user-friendly than other platforms and maybe social oriented. So there's that option too. But you can also do that with video and interestingly so I started doing similar patterns on video in 2022. And what's really cool about the video process is that if you post your marketing, your ideas, on YouTube now it's literally in minutes you get a transcription of what you just said. You can get that transcription, you can look at it and you can tweak it and you can improve on it right, and so you can turn and reuse that transcript into a blog article or LinkedIn message or a tweet, or and you can I mean the possibilities are just endless. So all of those now technology possibilities just just make for even stronger case for meaningful, meaningful marketing.

Carl Richards: 20:06

I feel like Plus, we've discovered that those transcripts are fantastic when positioned properly, of course, with your messaging for SEO. Like SEO, because everyone talks.

Guillaume Wiatr: 20:18

SEO, SEO, SEO.

Carl Richards: 20:19

But it's very important to have your messaging. Your messaging needs to be clear, but it needs to cut through the other noise that happens to be out there, and there's such a litany of it out there.

Guillaume Wiatr: 20:30

So, yeah, I would agree with that, Carl.

Carl Richards: 20:33

Any other examples that you wanted to give about meaningful marketing? I have one more question I want to ask you. Sure, I want to give you some opportunity to share some of those other examples, if you have any.

Guillaume Wiatr: 20:44

Yeah, another practice I have and I actually helped some of my clients now start is live webinars Free to attend, paid recording webinars. So here's the detail that is very important. When people think about a webinar, they think, oh yeah, I'm going to go to this thing, I'm going to learn a few things, but mostly it's going to be a bad sales pitch. But that's okay, I can get the recording after and if I miss the session, it's all right, I'll just get the recording and just fast forward to the parts that I want, because session it's all right, I'll just get the recording and just fast forward to the parts that I want. Because, let's face it, I don't know about you and your experience, car, but in my experience I've been on webinar participating with you for like over 20 years and the ratio of content to to to chat chat is very, very low.

Guillaume Wiatr: 21:25

I see my recommendations to do webinar very differently. First of all, invite people and tell them they won't be a recording, or you can get the recording but you will have to pay for it, say $100. So what's going to happen is that people are going to show up and only the motivated people will show up, the people for which the topic is guess what Meaningful. Oh, now we circle back and then in that webinar, oh, now we circle back and then in that webinar, reduce your sales pitch to maybe the last 10 to five minutes. And that's actually.

Guillaume Wiatr: 21:57

I found in my experience that that's a question people want to know. Like I love your ideas, love your framework, love your product, love your service, how do I buy it, how do I work with it? So don't skip that part. Don't skip that part, but just do it at the end, you know properly, without a pushy sales pitch, and invite people to just a delightful, immersive, insightful conversation. This will have so much more impact. You will see your leads just flourish by themselves because people will really understand what you're trying to get at and just really want to buy from you for the right reasons instead of a fake one.

Carl Richards: 22:33

That's a really good one. I actually made a note of that, either as a follow-up after we're finished the recording, or as a. I'm going to try that see how that works and, by the way, I suspect a similar. Maybe it has to be altered a little bit for the type of medium, but that type of concept would probably also work well for a podcast episode, because there are some podcast episodes that you tune into that you know it's a pitch fairly consistently every single week. It's a pitch towards this or that or whatever else, as opposed to and I know it's a little bit of a different platform, but I like that idea that way that you're inviting people providing the recording, but there is no recording. I do want to ask this question, though, and if you don't have an answer, that's fine, but if you have some ideas or some even opinions, we'll give you your opinion. We'll let you stand on a soapbox and share that. How is AI affecting the world of marketing and what you share and what you do?

Guillaume Wiatr: 23:29

I'm surprised this is still a question, but it's a really good question. It's completely transforming it. It's completely transforming it. If you're in marketing and you're not using AI, you're not going to be replaced by AI. You're going to be replaced by someone who uses AI. It has completely transformed, in good ways and in bad ways.

Guillaume Wiatr: 23:48

See, I'm a musician and I play the keyboards. I was born in the early 70s and I was young enough to remember the emergence of synthesizers in music. Right, and I don't know if you work from we are almost the same age but people from our generation will probably remember that there is a lot of bands that use synthesizers in a really bad way, and now you can go actually you can go on YouTube and find those old 70s, 80s songs with synthesizers and there are some really cheesy stuff. Like, you would look at this and burst laughing. But some bands also use synthesizers in a really good way, in a very, very. I'm thinking about Giorgio Moroder, who recorded with Daft Punk in the mid-2010s the author of Midnight Express, you know a movie from the 70s and really, really understood the essence of the synthesizer and it's evergreen. His stuff is still.

Guillaume Wiatr: 24:46

So we're seeing the same thing with AI in marketing. You've got horrible stuff and you have a minority of people who are smart enough to understand that AI should not replace you, but compliment you and make you smarter right. So that's what I lean into in my. I use AI every day, all the time, carl, but I don't make AI right for me. I use AI to make me smarter, to make me more creative, to challenge me. I ask AI hey, I'm trying to write this. Are there any other ways you would say this? What am I missing? And I disagree with the AI a lot of the time, and the answers are a lot of the time dumb, but somehow, somewhere I managed to find the nugget that I was dreaming of finding, that I couldn't find by myself. Does it answer the question?

Carl Richards: 25:38

Totally 100%, and I couldn't agree more. I know there's a lot of fear around AI. How many jobs is it going to replace, and I understand that. But, as you've already indicated, it's not the AI itself that's going to replace the jobs. It's how we use it, how we embrace it. We use AI all the time too. I mean we would be idiots not to use it because there's so many great tools that podcasters and marketing agencies like ours can use to just enhance the final product. So clients love us all the time and we can't say sorry, can't make it sound any better or look any better, because we don't have those tools. Well, now we do have all of those tools right at our fingertips.

Guillaume Wiatr: 26:19

Yeah, and can I share an example? I think right now I was on podcast a great conversation, by the way and the host decided to run the podcast with this AI tool that grabs segments of it and will spit out 15 to 20 segments with the little subtitles, and he started posting these. And I reached out and say, are you doing these with AI? And he's like, yeah, yeah, I'm doing these. I think the bot is not smart enough to really pick up the coolest part of our conversation. So I went to the recording and I say, in my opinion, here are the things that are really much better. So I don't think the robots are there yet on that particular one, I think they're still too dumb, it's true, I heard it.

Carl Richards: 27:01

Well, it's funny because two weeks ago I heard it referred to as not artificial intelligence, but augmented intelligence. You still need to be able to oh yeah, put things into it, all kinds of things that right and you can't just put it on autopilot and expect it to know what to do. It might know mathematically what, yeah, but it might not it doesn't have the same yet. Yet I'll say yet. It doesn't have the emotion, it doesn't know what to go and get yes, exactly, I'm learning something interesting here with you.

Guillaume Wiatr: 27:33

Carl is like the yeah probably.

Carl Richards: 27:35

What I'm just trying to describe is augmented versus yeah, yeah this has been a great conversation and, by the way, uh, your comment about synthesizers, spot on there. The other one that comes to mind, that used it very well, alan Parsons. Oh yeah. Yes, oh, I love Alan Parsons Totally well, I'll play, especially live, if you've ever seen any live videos of Alan Parsons, but even the recorded versions are phenomenal. But definitely knew how to Pink Floyd also.

Guillaume Wiatr: 28:08

Yeah.

Carl Richards: 28:09

Floyd's a good one too.

Guillaume Wiatr: 28:10

Yeah.

Carl Richards: 28:10

I'll give you that one. I'll give you that one. Oh my goodness, Guillaume, this has been a fantastic conversation. What would you like to pass along to our audience? Do you have a gift, a template, anything you'd like to share with them?

Guillaume Wiatr: 28:20

Yeah, if this conversation made you curious, go to my website, metahelmcom, and there is a simple exercise you can do that way, which through which I learned people say they learned a lot. It's an assessment. It's just 12 questions and you go there and it's fairly, fairly fast and it will help you get a sense for how authentic you're currently or meaningful you're developing your business. It covers more areas than marketing. It covers leadership, it covers sales, it covers operations, so it's a more holistic thing. But I invite people to just go there, take that assessment. Typically, I get an email when people get it and I'll offer this, for, if you're listening to Carl's podcast today, I will respond personally to your assessment and I will offer a 30 minutes conversation during which we can expand on the assessments and whatever question you may have. I guarantee this will not be a bad sales pitch. It will be a true conversation about you. That's my offer, carl.

Carl Richards: 29:22

I love it. Thanks so much, Guillaume. Wow, what a fantastic offer, and I really appreciate you sharing that. So we'll make sure we'll make reference to that in the show notes, where you'll find all of Guillaume's information, his links to social media which, by the way, if you want to make the short list, try connecting to him, or at least connect effectively. It starts with a conversation, right, it starts with at least a reach out. Before I turn you away Guillaume, Guillaume Wiatr has been my guest today, so thank you so much, but before I turn you loose, a final thought.

Guillaume Wiatr: 29:49

My thought will go to the risk takers, the people. I mean you're one, I'm a little bit of a different animal or crazy, or I bring in ideas that sound a little weird, and so keep being that person. That goes to you, Carl, and whoever you are here. If you're listening on this podcast and you feel like you're a little bit of the anomaly, it's okay to be the anomaly and be who you are and go create what you want to create.

Carl Richards: 30:16

I love it. That's a great place to leave it, Guillaume Wiatr a meaningful conversation about meaningful marketing. Thank you so much for being my guest today. My pleasure, carl, it was a blast. And thank you for joining us today. Special thanks to our producer and production Dom Carrillo, our music guru, Nathan Simon, and the person who works the arms all of our arms, actually my trusty assistant, stephanie Gafoor.

Carl Richards: 30:42

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