Mastering Podcast Guesting: Building Your Brand and Engaging Audiences with Mark Herschberg

Ever wondered how guesting on podcasts can reshape your personal brand? Join us as we sit down with the remarkable Mark Herschberg, author of "The Career Toolkit: Essential Skills for Success That No One Taught You" and the visionary behind the Brain Bump app. Inspired by the legendary Dori Clark, Mark set out with an ambitious target to appear on 150 podcasts and ended up surpassing 400! Discover the art of being a guest, where the spotlight isn't on selling but on impactful storytelling and reaching diverse audiences with genuine insights.

Our conversation takes a deep dive into the power of podcasts as trust-building tools. We tackle the nuances of audio quality and staying sharp in conversations while offering real value to listeners. By sharing knowledge freely, Mark illustrates how you can build an authentic brand without the sales pitch. We reveal the parallels between personalized fitness coaching and podcasting, demonstrating how understanding your audience's needs can lead to more engaging, resonant content.

Get ready to enhance your podcasting journey with some of the best practices shared in this episode. Whether you're a host or guest, we cover essential strategies to captivate and maintain your audience's attention. Discover how to tailor your content to fit your audience's demographics and interests, ensuring each episode leaves a lasting impression. From preparation tips for hosts to the art of concise storytelling for guests, this episode is packed with insights to refine your approach and keep your listeners coming back for more.

Connect with Mark:

Website:
thecareertoolkitbook.com

Check out the Brain Bump App:
https://brainbumpapp.com/

LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/hershey/

Chapters

• 0:04 Podcasting Success and Strategy Discussion
• 9:42 Building Brand Trust Through Podcasts
• 13:04 Personalized Fitness Coaching and Podcasting Tips
• 24:03 Podcast Hosting Best Practices

Transcript

Carl Richards: 0:04

Welcome to Communication Connection Community the podcaster's podcast. This podcast takes a deep dive into modern day communication strategies in the podcasting space. We chat with interesting people who make the podcasting and speaking spaces exciting and vibrant. We also dive into the podcasting community with news updates, latest trends and topics from this ever-evolving space. So strap in, it's going to be one amazing ride.

Carl Richards: 0:32

Let's dive into today's episode, and my guest today i. He's the author of the Career Toolkit Essential Skills for Success that no One Taught you and creator of the Brain Bump app not Brain Dump app the Brain Bump app From tracking criminals and terrorists on the dark web to creating marketplaces and new authentication systems. Mark has spent his career launching and developing new ventures at startups and Fortune 500s and in academia, with over a dozen patents to his name. He helped to start the Undergraduate Practice Opportunities Program, dubbed MIT's Career Success Accelerator, where he teaches annually At MIT. He received a BS in physics, a BS in electrical engineering and computer science and a master's in electrical engineering and computer science, focusing on cryptography. He's also spent the last three years guesting on podcasts, where he has guested on over 400 podcasts. We're going to have a fantastic conversation about a number of different things, mark. Welcome to the podcast, thanks for having me on.

Mark Herschberg: 1:41

It's my pleasure to be here.

Carl Richards: 1:43

Let's do a deep dive into the podcasting space. I mean, you have a lot of accolades to the work that you've done and thank you so much for all of the work that you've done over the years, but this 400 podcasts in three years thing has really got me intrigued. So what led you to podcasting to begin with?

Mark Herschberg: 2:00

When I was working on my book which was not intended as a book, but then one day I realized this is becoming a book I called up my friend, Dori Clark. I said Dori, I think I'm doing a book. Can you help me? And she was kind enough to sit down with me give me some advice. Dori is a award-winning business book author very successful and she said for my next book, I'm going to go on 150 podcasts to promote it. I thought, okay, well, if that's what Dory's doing, that's what I should be doing, and I set out to go on 150 podcasts Once I figured out how to find and get on podcasts efficiently. At that point the flywheel was going and I just kept on going because I wanted to I'm an overachiever, but also because it's a lot of fun and so I've been on 400 to date. We're recording this in June of 2024, but I expect to keep going and appearing on just any podcast that really wants to have me.

Carl Richards: 2:56

Phenomenal, phenomenal journey. As you get into the space, a lot of people, when they're getting in, they'll use the guesting experience as a springboard into hosting their own show. You don't have your own show. You've been on 400 other shows, or 400 plus guest appearances. Why don't you have your own?

Mark Herschberg: 3:12

show? It's a question I get asked often. It's important to understand what your goals are. Now, I'm probably a little different than most podcast guests in that I really don't sell much. So a little context to understand why I don't have a show.

Mark Herschberg: 3:27

There is Mark Hirshberg who does tech, startup companies and that's how I make my money. There's Mark Hirshberg who has a book called the Career Toolkit, but let me tell you, no one makes money selling books Maybe Stephen King, a few others, but the standard business book author. That's not how you make money. Most people who do that make money because they're also a coach or a consultant, but I don't sell any services around that. I'm not trying to be your executive coach, so I've got nothing to upsell. I do some paid corporate speaking, but you don't really sell that through your own podcast. And then there's Mark Hirschberg who has Brain Bump, which is a free app I give away. It's free for everyone, so there's no money there.

Mark Herschberg: 4:12

So my goal is sharing information, which I can do by casting a wider net, by going on different shows and hanging different audiences. There's maybe a little bit of selling hey, buy my book or download the app but that's a one-off thing and so you can learn enough in one show to decide if you want to go further. Hosting my own show. There's nothing to upsell. Where hosting makes sense is I want you to buy my $5,000, $10,000 coaching package. So now I'm going to go to other shows to get you to come to me and then build up that trust show after show. But that's not my goal, so I don't need a show for it.

Carl Richards: 4:49

It's a really good answer because, again, you would expect that, after 400 plus guest appearances, that you would be ready to do your own show. But, as you've just explained, it just it doesn't make sense, it's not a fit. And why would you do it if you're not going to be able to, like you say, to create that funnel or that customer experience or that journey to allow people to follow you not just to follow, but to find out more and really get into your community, which is a place that, I believe, is where podcasting is going? I'm sure we'll talk about that a little bit, but you said something very interesting about that.

Carl Richards: 5:22

There's the podcasters said something very interesting about you know that. There's the podcasters, who their coaches, their consultants. They have that offering that they're going to utilize, and your experience has been working with not only guests but hosts and making sure that they're giving the best experiences to their audiences. So let's shift into that a little bit, because I think that there are a lot of benefits to having a podcast or being a guest on podcasts, but some podcasters actually probably a large percentage of them, for whatever reason, they're missing the mark. And why is it they're missing the mark?

Mark Herschberg: 5:58

And they just haven't had any training. They said, well, I've heard some podcasts, so I think I'll start my own. And that's like saying, well, I've seen other people drive, so I'm 16, now Let me just start the car. I know what the steering wheel does and there's a gas pedal and I think there's some other thing in there. But of course, when you watch a 16-year-old drive, it's very stilted because they just don't have the experience, and that's why we give them driving lessons, that's why we have a provisional license where they're being supervised. But podcasting, it's the same thing. Well, okay, there's a microphone, I hit the record button, isn't that it? That's the only thing I see. And so I think, just through services like yours, through podcasting communities, through talking to others, we can start to learn. It's not just press the gas and turn the wheel to others. We can start to learn. It's not just press the gas and turn the wheel.

Carl Richards: 6:47

There's a little more subtlety to it. Yeah, it's like saying I've watched NASCAR on TV. Looks like you just get behind the wheel and drive in a circle a few times and the goal is to be in front all the time. That might be a simplified version of it, but you're right and I find that that training piece is crucial, and having a goal, having a vision or a plan for where you're going to take this thing, and I think that's one of the challenges in the podcasting space.

Carl Richards: 7:15

It's why we have, I think, such a lot of shows end up in podcatory, shall we say, because people start their show, they're all excited, they've heard podcasts, they go I'm going to do that. And they do a few shows and go oh, this is harder than I thought it would be. Or they want to be the overnight success. They listen to a big show, like a Joe Rogan show, and go hey, if he can do it, I can do it, not realizing that there's a formula or there's a system or there's a way to make it successful for yourself. But it doesn't just happen by chance.

Mark Herschberg: 7:44

They also don't see what's off camera. So, just like, if you're a driver, you do have to maintain your car, you have to change the oil and fix a flat tire from time to time. So too, we see pod fade happen so often because people say, well, I hit record, I got the show done, maybe they did editing, they have that concept and then I just upload it. Why don't I have a million people listening? Because you have to work at it. And that's the part people don't see. They don't see all the effort you're doing to gain listeners, to build the brand, to market it. And that's where people get very frustrated that it's not the overnight success that they thought it could be.

Carl Richards: 8:23

The other piece of that equation, too, is there's this emphasis now it's probably been going on for quite a bit, but we're seeing it more and more this emphasis on quality and I've been harping on this since day one where good enough is good enough if you know what the standard or what the metric is, but if you don't know, you can't just wipe your hands clean of it and say, well, that's good enough, without editing, without taking out hiccups and coughs and big gaffes or gaps even in the middle that really deflect from your messaging, Because, as much as we'd like to think that people aren't judging us, they are.

Carl Richards: 9:02

They're very much judging the quality of not just the content but also the production value, and I've heard on more than one occasion you probably have too, Mark that oh my goodness, I can't believe these guys or these people are just rambling and not really saying anything. There's nothing of value, and sometimes they're not articulating exactly what they're not hearing. They're saying this show, the show sucks, or I can't stand listening to those folks. How are you helping people, though, in that space?

Mark Herschberg: 9:30

Now I'll mention, as we're going through this advice. I wrote up a series of 10 articles called Podcast Alchemy and so on my Cognosco Media website and we'll give you those links. In the show notes you can find these articles and read through them. I've seen all sorts of problems from poor audio. It sounds great when recording and then I'll hear the playback. It sounds like I'm calling in on a telephone and that's just distracting. Rarely do you have people saying, oh, I love the quality of that audio. You have a few audiophiles doing it. It only detracts when you get it wrong, but it's very noticeable when it's wrong.

Mark Herschberg: 10:06

Sometimes we have people ramble too long, both hosts and guests. Now a lot of people like the authenticity of podcasts. They like it's a conversation. We're not just focused. This isn't a college lecture, but I've seen shows where they'll spend 10 minutes talking about mutual friends or other background and the listener is just thinking I could deal with a minute or two. It warms me up into the conversation but I'm getting bored. I don't need to hear about your vacation last month and what was like bringing your kids versus the other person's kids. So keeping a reasonable amount of diversion but mostly staying focused.

Mark Herschberg: 10:40

And then one of my biggest pet peeves with guests is where guests say I've got six secrets on how to create a great website, but you have to buy my book in order to get, or you have to download my whatever you know what. They're not secrets. I can tell you in my book. I think I have good advice. But I'm not saying this is the only place to get that advice. A good deal of it you can get many other places. I just say it in a certain way. That's maybe better or worse.

Mark Herschberg: 11:07

And so I had the philosophy going on these shows where I would talk about the book Ask me anything, I will give you. Here is the advice, here is the takeaway. I give it away all for free in other sources because it's about, I think, first helping the audience. That's what we are here to do, first and foremost. But even if you do have something to sell, again, you're not making money from your book. You're building the brand trust. So give away those free samples because people aren't going for, oh, the six secrets, I have it Now, I'm done. They're going for what's underneath that, getting the bigger picture that they get in your book, your class, your lecture, whatever it is you're trying to promote.

Carl Richards: 11:46

Building the brand trust, but also building that relationship. So people have developed enough of a know, like and trust factor so that they will, at the appropriate time, take the next step or take that big step and start working with you or tap into one of your programs, an event or something that you're offering from the show. And I like how it's funny how you mentioned the giving away things for free. I've heard a couple of coaches say I don't give away anything for free. I'll give away some tips maybe, but then they'll to your point. They'll say but you have to buy the book to get the rest of it. The other side of that is they give away everything for free but what they don't get this is, I think, where some podcasters also trip up is.

Carl Richards: 12:30

My first podcast was about speaker training and coaching and I would give everything away for free. But what the audience never got for free was me. They never got me as a coach. They got the tips, they got the tricks, they got the, even the techniques, but you don't learn unless you do tap into those services. So this whole idea of holding something, holding your IP close to your chest and saying you can't have it unless you pay for it, I think is counterproductive to what we should be doing. Because you're right, it's out there somewhere, if not in your Rolodex of services. Somebody else has something that is similar and they're willing to give it for free.

Mark Herschberg: 13:04

I'd like you to fitness training If you want to lose weight, get in shape, learn how to use some piece of equipment. You can absolutely find that for free on the internet. There is a video for everything how to do this type of exercise, how you should think about your nutrition, is 100% free. But then why are people paying for fitness coaching? It's because you want to get personalized. You want to get the most out of your time investment, and that's where you do need whether it's one-on-one coaching or small group coaching. That's where you're getting that extra return. Now, if you're just trying to drop five pounds, okay, go look for advice on the internet and go follow some best practices, you're fine. But when you're really trying to take that extra step, make a bigger change, have a bigger impact, that's where you need that personalized input.

Carl Richards: 13:55

The personalized service for sure does make a huge difference. And yeah, you're right, there's a lot of things you can figure out on your own. But that's why, when you can't figure it out on your own or you don't have the video, or to your point about the coaching, I know that if I just keep losing five pounds you know a pound a week or whatever it is I'll eventually, with proper diet and sleep and all of that stuff, I'll be good, I'll lose a few more pounds and I'll look great. That doesn't mean I've strengthened muscle mass, which a personal trainer can help me figure out what muscle group to work on, how often to work on it, all of those things. So I'm glad that we've solidified that. I did look back up a little bit too about something you mentioned which is one of my biggest pet peeves as well, and it's when the conversation goes off into a completely different direction or becomes too personalized that the audience ends up being in the background. And when the audience goes wait a minute, they're not talking to me, like you should always be talking to your audience. So you know, mark and I are having this phenomenal conversation. We're talking to you and I hope that you're getting some great tips and techniques from this. Mark and I are sharing our experiences. We're not having sidebar conversations about you know how's your favorite baseball team doing? Like it's not relevant One of the best examples I can think of and maybe you have one too that you'd like to share, or some other insights on this.

Carl Richards: 15:13

I remember doing a podcast audit for a podcaster who wanted to elevate the show, wasn't sure how to do it, couldn't figure out why they weren't getting traction from the show, and I listened to a bunch of episodes and one episode specifically was talking about how okay, we got to get this episode done in a hurry because the World Cup of Soccer is on, so we're going to quickly talk to my guest. And there was so much deflection from the guests it's almost like the guest wasn't there because I got to talk to this guest because we're recording an episode, but I got to also do this quickly so I can get to the World Cup of Soccer that it was so much of a turnoff. And I remember putting that in the evaluation, in the audit, and I didn't get any pushback from it. But I remember thinking if that's how you're addressing your audience, if that's how you're showing up, you're not going to have an audience for very long.

Mark Herschberg: 16:03

It sounds like the audience and doing the show was a burden. In that case, yeah, first and foremost. Guests and hosts both need to remember we are here for the audience. It's not about selling, it's not about promotion. It's about creating good audience value. That value, then you build the brand, trust and people are open.

Mark Herschberg: 16:22

If your goal is to sell something, a simple thing both parties should be doing is, before the recording starts, being clear on who the audience is. If you are a host, I recommend in the emails you send out ahead of time to the guest you say this is my audience. And guess, if you do not get that before you hit record, ask the host what can you tell me about your audience? Now, I know that many services don't have a lot of information. They might just say here are the countries, here's the age range, gender breakdown, and if that's all you have, that's okay.

Mark Herschberg: 16:57

But even then say but here is my archetype, here's who I'm thinking about as the host, here's who I'm looking for as the audience, or who I like to think I'm talking to, because that's where I orient the guest and as a guest, you want to keep that in mind when I'm asked questions. This is where the leadership advice in the book okay, it's leadership advice, it's a little general. I do have a couple examples, but then the show. I'm going to change that leadership advice. If it's college students versus mid-level execs in manufacturing versus senior leaders in healthcare, I'm going to try to pull in examples most relevant to them to really help it resonate and make it as valuable as I can for the audience.

Carl Richards: 17:39

I think, on behalf of the host as well.

Carl Richards: 17:41

The host really needs to know who their client avatar is, and I know that in some of the work that we do, it's something that, believe it or not, maybe it's not much of a shock to you, but there are still a lot of entrepreneurs, business owners, even savvy ones, that aren't fully aware, or they haven't established, who their ideal or their core client or, in the sense of a podcast, or who their core audience is.

Carl Richards: 18:03

You need to know that, but, to your point, you also need to be able to as a guest, you need to be able to style shift. So knowing who the audience is is crucial, and I like how. Just full disclosure, as you're listening to this, that Mark and I had a conversation about 15, 20 minutes before we even hit record, even though Mark and I are connected through Podmatch and I can't say that enough because I'm sure that Alex Sanfilippo at some point will write me a big check for saying PodMatch a number of times Through PodMatch, I have a profile, mark has a profile, I see his biography. He sees who my ideal client is or my core audience Mark still asks you still ask that question, mark before we even hit record. You said, just to be clear I just want to make sure who's your audience and I thought that was very genuine of you to ask that.

Mark Herschberg: 18:56

Even though you've read it, it was very clear that you wanted to be 100% sure, so you could give the right examples and you never know, especially as a guest. Has the podcast changed or shifted? I do hear from some people. Well, I noticed recently we're more of this. Okay, well, that's helpful, and a host may not be updating that as frequently as we're noticing changes, so I always just like to get that checked. It also for many guests. I had a couple client meetings right before I came into this. I'm jumping from one to another. I read that profile on you and your audience a few days ago. Let me just reset. Let me have it right there in front of me right as we jump into the show and so it focuses everyone.

Carl Richards: 19:34

You hit the nail right on the head there where we are in such a busy place sometimes, where I'll give you an example that recently I had four meetings in the morning. Then I had an event I was hosting that was a three-hour event. Then I had a recording. Well, the recording came pretty much right after my event. So I had an event I was hosting. That was a three-hour event. Then I had a recording. Well, the recording came pretty much right after my event.

Carl Richards: 19:52

So I had minutes literally to style shift from I'm being a host of an event to I'm recording a podcast episode. It doesn't sound like it's much of a shift, but it is. It's a mental shift. It's now I have to open my Podmatch profile thing again and look at who my guest is and just make sure I have the right information, which is why I always take that 15 minutes and I always suggest to hosts that you give it a little bit of time, don't record so tightly that you don't leave enough time to have that conversation with your guest ahead of time. But I still needed to. Just can we just talk a few minutes before we hit record, just to get into that mode. So I really like how you did that right off the top to confirm that.

Carl Richards: 20:33

And yeah, you're right, things change. I mean, this show used to be all about speaker training and how to get on stages and how to perform on stages, and then we started a second podcast and we merged the two together, which is how we came with Communication Connection Community. I want to talk about community, if you don't mind, because I know you've been on over 400 shows. I want to get your insights based on where you've been in the last three years and the shows you've been on, and it's clear as a guest, that you have your finger on the pulse of what's happening in the podcasting space. Plus, you've helped guests and hosts improve their performance on podcasts. Are you seeing an uptick in the community piece coming out in the podcasting space? Are we seeing that there's more of an emphasis or an emphasis on building community, as you're also building out your show?

Mark Herschberg: 21:22

It certainly has grown over the past three years since I started doing this end of 2020, really beginning of 2021. We're seeing communities like Podmatch, as we mentioned earlier. We're seeing the podcasting conferences get bigger. We're also seeing more and more Facebook groups and other groups, although honestly, I find a lot of those to be very noisy. When I look at the online Facebook groups, it's a lot of beginning podcasters, beginning guests and people who are sometimes they're just trying to figure out hey, what mic do I use? We see that question all the time and that's fine, although, honestly, those forums are probably not the best place for it. You should be reading elsewhere, not just whoever happens to respond that day with advice, but then also people are saying I'm looking for my first guest or please help me promote my show, and unfortunately, these communities also get very overrun with marketers.

Mark Herschberg: 22:14

We see the same thing, by the way, in author groups. This isn't unique to podcasting. Same thing a lot of early authors, a lot of people just trying to sell into these groups. So I don't find them to be very high value. I think we still need to see some high value groups and the key I've written up on, as much as I'm egalitarian, and I'd like to see groups are open to many people, especially since I grew up a nerd, as excluded for most of them. There is something to having a certain level of restriction and quality control and that can also, depending on how you do it, engender trust. That's going to create a lot more connection and connectivity and engagement among your group. So we need to, I think, create some higher quality groups in the community.

Carl Richards: 22:59

I like the way that you explained that and identified some of the challenges that we're seeing, and I've seen that too, especially on Facebook, not so much in LinkedIn, but certainly on Facebook. You see these and some of these groups are massive, thousands of people in them and, like you say, what microphone should I use? Well, what's your budget? I mean, if it's less than $50, you're kind of limited. Oh, actually, no, you're not limited. There are a lot of options in that, but again, it goes to okay. Well, what's the quality that you're going after? Because quality is one of those things, that is, we're really seeing an uptick in the quality not just of the content, but also the quality of the sound, of the video, of all of those things, especially the audio that's being put out there. So, great insight on that.

Carl Richards: 23:42

I did want to give you the opportunity to some quick tips for hosts and guests. I know I don't want you to give away your best up, but some quick tips for guests and hosts that maybe need a little bit of an uptick in how they're doing things. What would you suggest to guests and hosts? Let's start with guests. What can they do to just be better guests?

Mark Herschberg: 24:01

I do give it all away. I had people say, mark, you could do some coaching for podcasts. I don't want to do coaching. Could do some coaching for podcasts. I don't want to do coaching. Everything I'm going to tell you and more you can get in my articles completely free. I don't even need your email, just go read them. So for guests, a couple of things. We talked about keeping the audience in mind. We talked about giving away the content. Don't hide it. Don't say buy my book, you have to do further. Just give it away.

Mark Herschberg: 24:27

Don't monologue. We have seen people who get onto a topic and just keep talking, talking, talking. I aim for answers that are probably about 60 to 120 seconds. I may go a little longer, especially for some of the things I get asked and I have to give some context or example. Maybe there's more to things that might be a full three-minute kind of monologue, but otherwise, this is a conversation. This is not formal talk. So have that conversation. Don't promote your content. I hear people who say, oh, well, in my book and of course in chapter seven and on page whatever, and they just hit over and over. Yes, it's fine to say, oh, in chapter two I do talk about and give some of that, but don't just beat them over the head with your content. You're there to provide value. You can do the call to action, the little bit of sales at the end but you're there for the audience, not for selling your material.

Carl Richards: 25:25

I like that. I think that's a technique that I think spilled over from the conference slash speaking world, where somebody would be on stage and they'd say you know, in chapter seven of my book, dah, dah, dah, dah. And then, oh, by the way, that book I was talking about you can grab your copy. It's at the back of the room, right. So this is a different platform altogether, right. So I'm really glad you shared that, because I think that does get overdone quite often. What about hosts? What are some quick hits that hosts can do to really knock it out of the park and really be a good host? We mentioned.

Mark Herschberg: 25:54

Of course, as a host, you should express who your audience is, so you help orient your guests to who they are. One of my biggest pet peeves is how people read intros. I see so many hosts who have not seen the intro before and they read it almost word for word in a very stunted way. Mark Hirshberg is the author of the Career Tool essential skills for success that no one taught you. Scan the thing, just scan it ahead of time. It's okay if you have to pause between a word my bio. Especially with words like cryptography that usually trips people up. But for example, we didn't have this in my bio, but it's on the longer versions.

Mark Herschberg: 26:38

I'm on the board of plant a million corals. It's a nonprofit where we're just trying to help the oceans and I can't tell you how many people see it as plant a million corals. But if you scanned it ahead of time, clearly that word doesn't work. So just glance at ahead of time. Maybe practice it once or twice. You sound professional when you read it correctly. It's not about even trying to make the guest look better. It's just sounding like you know what you're doing, versus you're caught off guard like a deer in the headlights, and it really makes you look amateur.

Carl Richards: 27:10

To me it's hosting 101. And maybe this is a spillover from my training as a broadcaster, where I would read everything over at least once. Some of it was done on the fly, I'll admit, but I always, always before we started, again, before we hit record, I said, just to confirm your last name is Hirschberg, because you never know if there's an S and a C and an H. Is it Hirsch? Is it Hirsch? You just don't know. But then also I knew and by the way, you probably heard the cleaned up version of my introduction for Mark. I tripped over it a couple of times and I read it out loud twice before I even got on the call with Mark.

Carl Richards: 27:51

So it pays to read it over, not just so you're familiar with it, but so you can have that authentic or that make it sound like you're not reading. That is a skill and again, it's one that, as a broadcaster, that comes very easy to me. But if it's not a natural skill that you have the practice, the reading it over, maybe it's more than twice, Maybe you have to read it three times, Maybe you have to copy and paste a bio and put it into a word doc and edit it a little bit, so it is more free-flowing than the one that the guest has given you just so that you do sound and you come off as being the expert. There's nothing worse as a guest than hearing the host read your bio, make it sound clunky or, even worse, read it incorrectly or make stuff up or make stuff up.

Mark Herschberg: 28:42

One other thing that really frustrates me is when the call to action hosts say and we're going to have the link to your website in the show notes, but they don't say what it is. And we have to remember when, where and how people engage with this content. Most people are listening to a podcast while they're doing something else driving to work, on the subway, out, jogging in the gym, cooking dinner. They are not in a place where they can say oh, what a great episode, let me jump to the show notes. And by the time they pull into work, by the time the podcast finishes, dinner is ready and they're going to forget about looking at the show notes. So always, yes, put in the show notes, but always say please, what is your URL, let the guest or, if you want to do it, as a host, but always give the audio version. Assume people are not looking at the show notes we hope they are and you can put in more information, but give the audio version of the key takeaways to call to action. And in fact, by the same context, I see a lot of people trip up where they do have visuals. Some people say, oh, I've got a PowerPoint slide. Well, remember, some people are listening to this in audio only, even if it is video. Again, people are at the gym, people are driving. They are not looking. They're using it on a small device where they can't even see the screen and they can't see what you're doing. So, if you do have something visual, I'm showing a triangle and you can see one of the sides is much bigger and here's why Give that explanation. Likewise, remember the when part Earlier I mentioned, we're recording this in June of 2024.

Mark Herschberg: 30:14

I don't know when this is going to come out and I certainly don't know when you're listening to this. You might be listening to this in 2026. At this point, I'll have done more podcasts or less. Now, most of our content is evergreen, but especially for things that are more context sensitive. If we're talking the economy, politics, the state of AI in 2024, it's still wildly changing, so you always want to give that context.

Carl Richards: 30:38

Very well stated. I could not agree more. I also use those nuances, such as, especially this last four years, where there was a lot of discomfort and a lot of uncertainty with the pandemic, and I would say things like this, by the way, is being recorded in April of 2021 and we're under lockdown not to trip it back or send people on a trip down memory lane, but to also remind people that what's happening in that moment. The other thing that I like, how you mentioned about the visuals. That's partly why I'm smirking. By the way, you can't see me smirking if you're listening, obviously, but I'm smirking because you're talking about the audio version of the links that go in the show notes. But then also when you're using visuals such as PowerPoint and you're just saying, look, there's a triangle. Or you don't even say it's a triangle, you just say, as you can see on my slide, well, I can't see the slide. You need to paint the picture, and in the radio world we call it literally theater of the mind, where we're explaining exactly what that visual is.

Mark Herschberg: 31:45

So thank you very much, and this is where I'm going to give you the opportunity this is the main reason why I'm smirking is to share with the audience what you're going to pass on to them. I created an app called Ring Bump. One of the things that frustrates me about podcasts is that because people are listening to them as they're cooking dinner or driving to work, as soon as the show is over, they're doing a context, switch back to something else and they're going to forget the advice in your episode within hours, if not minutes, for evergreen content. This is for business, self-help, all sorts of different advice where they're going to hopefully remember and use that advice long after the episode's over. We want to help them remember it. We do this because we care about our audience. We also do it because, if you want to build that brand trust, it's not going to work if they forget what advice you're giving them. It's not going to help them and they're not going to trust you.

Mark Herschberg: 32:32

So I created a completely free app called Brain Bump. Brain Bump takes the key ideas from books, blogs, podcasts, classes, talks, puts those into the app and so your audience can take away the key salient points that they heard. They can either do a just-in-time access, so if you have a show on negotiating, so I say, oh, I've got a negotiation tomorrow. I need to prep. Well, the apps are all tagged, all tagged by topic, think hashtags and say, ok, negotiation tips, bring them up, or they can do a just in time.

Mark Herschberg: 33:05

My spouse is yelling at me for not being a good husband. Every day at six o'clock because I head home I get a tip marriage advice that came from your show, so I get it when and where I need it. I don't even need to open the app and all of it is coming with your content brand and all of it is hyperlinked back to your show or other content. So that's the Brain Bump app and you can find it at brainbumpappcom. At that website there are links to the Android and iPhone stores. There's also an FAQ and if you are a content creator, if you're a podcaster or speaker of other content, there's a form at the bottom of the page If you're interested in getting your content on there completely free to stay sticky with your audience.

Carl Richards: 33:48

I love it. Brain Bump, that's bump with a B, by the way, brainbumpappcom and we will put the link in the show notes, for sure, and all of Mark's other pertinent information. Mark, it's been a phenomenal conversation. Thank you so much for being here today. Before I turn you loose to go save some podcasters and guests from total destruction, I'll leave you with the final thought.

Mark Herschberg: 34:10

We talked about the need for community and how, while it's starting, it's still very noisy. I hope someone out here says I'm going to build a higher quality community still very noisy. I hope someone out here says I'm going to build a higher quality community. But even if you're not ready to do that for all of us, consider forming a mastermind group. And yes, there's lots of people who will charge for us. But you can just get together with a handful of podcasters and say we're going to come together and maybe we meet once a month, but we're going to just share techniques that we've learned, share ideas. That doesn't mean you shouldn't also have a coach or service, should you need it. They're not mutually exclusive. But do find other people, uplift each other, because that's a great way to improve and to build your own networks.

Carl Richards: 34:53

Mark Herschberg. I think I'll leave it right there. Thank you so much for being my guest today and thank you for joining us today. Special thanks to our producer and production lead, Dom Carrillo, our music guru, Nathan Simon, and the person who works the arms all of our arms, actually my trusty assistant, Stephanie Gaffor. If you like what you heard today, leave us a comment and a review and be sure to share it with your friends. If you don't like what you heard, please share it with your enemies. Oh, and if you have a suggestion of someone who you think would make an amazing guest on the show, let us know about it. Drop us an email. Askcarl at carlspeaksca. Don't forget to follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter as well. You'll find all those links in the show notes, and if you're ready to take the plunge and join the over 3 million people who have said yes to podcasting, let's have a conversation. We'll show you the simplest way to get into the podcasting space, because, after all, we're podcast solutions made simple. We'll catch you next time.