From Idea to Global Sensation: Kevin Palmieri on Building a Successful Podcast

What does it take to transform a simple podcast idea into a global sensation? Join us as we sit down with Kevin Palmieri, the mastermind behind Next Level University, a leading self-improvement podcast with over 1,700 episodes. Kevin candidly shares his unexpected journey into podcasting, teaching us the true meaning of accountability and the unwavering dedication required to build a brand that resonates with over 1 million listeners worldwide. His story, filled with engaging anecdotes and insights, shatters the illusion of overnight success, revealing the grit and consistency needed to thrive in the podcasting world.

Unlock the secrets to engaging your audience and building a loyal community as Kevin guides us through the art of audience engagement. He stresses the importance of leveraging various platforms, such as social media, to create authentic connections and foster organic conversations with your listeners. By focusing on meaningful metrics like subscriber counts and consumption rates, Kevin demonstrates how to maintain a dedicated audience that keeps coming back for more. Discover how to use social media as a tool for connection, rather than just conversion, and see firsthand how these strategies can propel your podcast to new heights.

Looking ahead, Kevin shares his thoughts on the future of podcasting, emphasizing the critical role of community-building and creative monetization strategies. As technology advances, he highlights the rising influence of AI while underscoring the importance of keeping the human element alive in content creation. Explore how video content is becoming a cornerstone in podcasting's evolution, and benefit from Kevin's insights on maintaining high audio quality alongside visual storytelling. 

Connect with Kevin:
https://www.nextleveluniverse.com/

Podcast:
https://www.nextleveluniverse.com/podcast-growth-university/

Social Media:
Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/kevin.palmieri.90/
LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-palmieri-5b7736160/
Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/neverquitkid/
YouTube

Chapters

• 0:04 Podcasting Strategies for Success
• 11:48 Building Audience Success Through Engagement
• 17:02 Building Community Through Podcast Engagement
• 27:43 The Future of Podcasting

Transcript

Carl Richards: 0:04

Welcome to Communication Connection Community, the podcaster's podcast. This podcast takes a deep dive into modern day communication strategies in the podcasting space. We chat with interesting people who make the podcasting and speaking spaces exciting and vibrant. We also dive into the podcasting community with news updates, latest trends and topics from this ever-evolving space. So strap in, it's going to be one amazing ride. Let's dive into today's episode, and my guest today is a fellow podcaster, kevin Palmieri. He's the CSO founder and host of Next Level University, a global top 100 self-improvement podcast with more than 1,700 episodes. He's been doing this a while reaching over 1 million people in more than 170 countries. I definitely want to dive into that a little bit. For sure, kevin believes in a heart-driven but no BS approach to holistic self-improvement and teaching others how to get to the next level of their lives, and we're so thrilled he's here today. Kevin, welcome to the podcast.

Kevin Palmieri: 1:11

Carl, thank you so very much for having me. Hopefully I can live up to the reputation you have created for me and we can add some value today to your amazing community. If you don't, I want my money back 100%.

Carl Richards: 1:23

Plus tax. We'll give you the tax back too, plus tax, and I want that tax in Canadian dollars, if you don't mind, I'd appreciate that. So, wow, to have 1,700 episodes unto itself is pretty impressive. There are some podcasters that don't hit six episodes, let alone 1,700. Yes, and reaching a million people in more than 170 countries Also something that takes a while to get there. So let's talk about your journey and how you got to where you are with the show, because that's impressive.

Kevin Palmieri: 1:53

I appreciate that very much. Yeah, I never aspired to be a podcaster. I never aspired to be a speaker. I never aspired to be many of the things I am today. I had a friend who is now my business partner and the co-host of the podcast. He had a YouTube channel and in 2017, he said I want to have you on my YouTube channel and I want to interview you about fitness, discipline, mindset, consistency. And I said I don't know how valuable it's going to be because I'm not a great speaker and I don't really know what I'm talking about, but let's do it. This interview was an hour and a half long. It went by in what felt like five minutes. When we finished, I said to one of my other friends who was there I said imagine if you could do that for a living, the fact that that just went by in what felt like five minutes. If I could do that every day for the rest of my life, I would be the most fulfilled human being walking the planet. And he said well, there's people out there that do so. That was really the kickstart for me to explore podcasting. I listened to Joe Rogan, like everybody else in 2017. So I understood podcasting a little bit.

Kevin Palmieri: 2:53

I went out and bought my first mixer. I went on Fiverr and got someone to help me with the artwork and I figured out okay, I'm going to try to have cool conversations with cool people. That was it in the very beginning. I wasn't teaching anything, I wasn't selling anything. I didn't start this to make money. I started this because I wanted to be the person that I needed when I was looking to find someone to help me with self-improvement. So it all started by happenstance and by accident, and I was not reverse engineering. What we were trying to do. It was just right place, right time, right mindset, I guess Wow.

Carl Richards: 3:27

Quite the story and congratulations on the success of where it is, because I know it doesn't happen like that. It takes some time to get there, but 1,700 episodes that in itself is impressive. So are you podcasting daily, or how do you get to that number in? Was that seven short years?

Kevin Palmieri: 3:46

Yeah, seven short years in retrospect, but trust me, they felt long. Every single one felt longer than the other. So in the beginning we started, like everybody tends to start, we did an episode a week and then, in 2018, I had a mental health crisis where I had suicidal ideation. I ended up leaving my job and saying, look, I want to really give this a go and I want to give this everything I have. So I think in 2018, we went up to two episodes a week and then, as we got the processes down and the systems down, and as we got better at interviewing and doing solo episodes, we went to three, and then we went to four, and then we went to five. Eventually, we were doing six and we said, look, there's only one more day in the week, we might as well do one every single day. What are we waiting for? And I think that was three years ago.

Kevin Palmieri: 4:30

I think, as of maybe three years ago we have done an episode every single day without missing, and that's our new set point, that's our new standard. Every day, we will pump out a new episode. We'll never miss. If Alan can't show up, I'll show up. If I can't show up, alan will show up, we will get some piece of content out to our audience. That is our commitment and that is one of the reasons we're so consistent, because it's part of our brand. I've said that publicly hundreds of times. I just said it again I will never miss one of our episodes, so that has helped us out tremendously with the built-in accountability.

Carl Richards: 5:01

I think that's the big thing, is the accountability, but also the consistency. And I know that, again, some podcasters struggle with that because, for some reason, there's this thought that, oh, it just happens by magic, if I put out a few episodes, the podcast, gods or the heavens will open up and I'll be a superstar overnight. Because that's how it happens, right? Right, kevin, that's exactly how it happens, right, you were a superstar overnight.

Kevin Palmieri: 5:22

Yeah, that was my journey. That was exactly how it worked. One of the beautiful things so I've worked with a lot of podcasters and one of the beautiful things is I get to see it doesn't matter what it looks like on social media, it doesn't matter what their life looks like. I get to see the real data behind the scenes of how many people are listening to the podcast and what all those numbers look like. And there's usually two schools of people.

Kevin Palmieri: 5:45

There are people and this is the smaller bucket there are people who what I like to refer to as overcooking the turkey. These are people who already have a decent size audience, but they're just waiting to do the next thing, and we've had clients who have 150,000 followers on Instagram. Growing their podcast is pretty easy, but that's because they put 7, 8, 10, 15 years into Instagram, so they've already invested the time. So that's one bucket. The other bucket is somebody who does not have an existing audience, who has the mindset and the expectations that the podcast is the best way to quickly build a new audience. It's a great way to build a new audience. It's just not as quick as most people think. I think when the thing becomes sexy, it's the thing that gets rushed to the most and podcasting was very, very sexy. During the pandemic. A lot of people started podcasts.

Carl Richards: 6:40

Unfortunately, a lot of those podcasts aren't around anymore, so just getting your expectations right off the bat is so important for anything, especially podcasting especially when we start talking about the financial end of things and when is my podcast going to make me money, which is another kettle of fish altogether? But it's no. It's about understanding this is a long game, not a short game, and unless you already have the Joe Rogan audience or your Oprah Winfrey, you have that credibility, you have that audience, you've built it over time. It's not going to be an instant. Oh, my goodness, I can now start a podcast and I'll instantly be a success.

Carl Richards: 7:26

It's a journey and there's always the behind the scenes things, as you've indicated that things happen behind the scenes. Guests don't show up, or a co-host gets sick, or there's things that happen that you just can't avoid. But it's a matter of the consistency, of always doing it and understanding that and this is probably business 101 as well You're not going to be a seven figure business owner three months after being in business, unless you hit on something really big. It's going to be a journey to look up to the 1%.

Kevin Palmieri: 8:06

That is just the most successful and we assume the same thing is going to happen for us and it just statistically. It doesn't work that way. Most of us are not going to be the Joe Rogan of the barstool, and that's okay. I don't think most of us would actually want to. I think it sounds really good, but that's a whole. You need a whole company to make that type of stuff happen.

Kevin Palmieri: 8:22

What I've noticed, carl, is I think people's desires become their expectations. So in the beginning, my desire was I'm going to become a full-time podcaster and I'll have full-time income within a first year, and then that became my expectation of how it was supposed to happen. It didn't happen that way. It took us two years before we monetized anything and I was $30,000, $40,000 in debt. My car broke down. I couldn't buy my now wife Christmas presents. It was brutal, but I do think you touched on something very important. If you're getting into podcasting, yes, study, communication, study, speaking, study, community building, study business, because what you're ultimately doing is you're creating a digital business, and the faster we treat the podcast like a business, I think the more successful and at least the more longevity we'll have.

Carl Richards: 9:11

Well, even just how you present your content. And there are many different types of podcasts out there, which is another issue, because some people don't want to do a podcast that's business related. They might want to do something that is more in line with their passion project or their hobby and in that sense, okay, that's fine. But understand, that's a different kind of podcast. Most of the podcasters I work with they are business owners and they want to leverage the podcast to bring in more prospects through developing that know, like and trust factor. But it has to be as you said, it has to be intentional, you need to intend for it to happen. Factor, but it has to be as you said, it has to be intentional, you need to intend for it to happen, but it just doesn't happen by magic. It comes within your content. Is your content bringing people in or are you repelling people?

Carl Richards: 9:53

I attune it to when I invite friends to my house for dinner. If they've never been to the house before. Hopefully, if they're friends, they've been here at least once. But if they've never been to the house before, I'll say okay, well, come on over. Here's the address and thankfully, with GPS, you know how to get there. You don't need too many instructions, but if this was the old days where we had to write down directions for how to get to my house, if I left out those last two or three directions but I still wanted you out of my house for dinner, you would never arrive right. So I need to be intentional with my content. I need to connect all the dots. So if there's something I want you to do based on the content I've shared, it could be check out my website. Get this free resource here. I need to tell you to do that. I just can't assume you know it's there.

Kevin Palmieri: 10:37

Yeah, the conversion rate is probably lower than you think it's going to be. In anything that you do in the podcast space you can ask if you get a thousand listens per episode and you say, leave a review, you might get to your pens. It depends on your audience. It depends on. But you do have to ask because, like you said, I think a lot of us assume I just built a coffee shop on the corner. There's going to be people walking by the coffee shop. Some people will just come in and check out what we do With a podcast.

Kevin Palmieri: 11:04

You don't have a coffee shop. It doesn't really exist in reality until somebody finds it, and that's why it's super challenging. That's one of the questions I ask people all the time. If you had a coffee shop, if you just built it and you were trying to build business in, what would you do? Would you just sit inside the shop and wait for people to come in? No, you'd be on social media. You'd be on other podcasts talking about whatever. You'd be in other coffee shops talking about your coffee shop. You'd be at conferences. You'd be at the fire station and the police station, the school, giving away free coffee to build your reputation and your brand, but for some reason, when it comes to a digital space, we lose a lot of those ideas, and I think that outside the box thinking is super valuable.

Carl Richards: 11:43

It's extremely valuable. You'd also be telling all of your friends, which is another disconnect. So it's not just about I have a podcast. Oh, I have to make sure I put it out there on all my socials and invite people to it. I know individuals that have podcasts and they still will not stand up and say, hey, I have a podcast, or it's not in their bio, or it's not on their website, or it's not, you know, in organic conversation, saying, hey, first, I haven't seen in a while X, y, z friend, have you listened to the new show? Oh, you didn't know I had a podcast because we haven't talked to them.

Carl Richards: 12:13

Okay, well, check this out. That's some foundational pieces to getting to building your audience so that you have a better chance of success. And it is a numbers game. But it's not about the numbers, because there are some very successful shows out there that have less than 40, 50 listeners, but there are others that have thousands of listeners that don't generate a dime right. So it's about what are you doing to create the space, or create the platform that people will not only want to listen, but they'll want to follow you and they want to know more about what you're doing.

Kevin Palmieri: 12:48

Yeah, I think the conversation that you have outside of the podcast is just as important as the conversation you have on the podcast. I've really shifted the way I look at social. Social media to me used to be this really, really big thing in terms of conversion. So we're going to take the best stuff we got, we're going to break it up into clips, we're going to put it on social media and then call to action will be listened to the podcast and call to action will be listen to the podcast. We do an episode every day, so our approach might be a little bit different. It's just it's kind of different.

Kevin Palmieri: 13:15

Now I understand that Carl and I could listen to the same podcast. We could be neighbors, we could listen to the same exact podcast, unless when I'm taking the trash out, I say, hey, carl, what podcast are you listening to? My friend, and he tells me and I say I love that show. I can't believe I'm listening to the same podcast. We'll essentially never know that we're listening to the same show and unless we come out of the woodwork and self-identify as listeners, the host will never know we're listening either, because podcast platforms aren't really set up that way yet.

Kevin Palmieri: 13:43

They're doing a better job now with the audio. You can audio the host and that type of stuff, but it's not like on social where it says Carl followed you and then I can send Carl a message and say thank you so much for following me, carl. Where did you hear about me? That's the importance of social now is it creates the opportunity for your audience members to self-identify and then you can talk directly to them. And if you're willing to take that step, I think you're going to make it further than most, because you're going out and finding people and then making sure they're actually coming back to the podcast.

Carl Richards: 14:14

Yeah, yeah, I think that, being intentional and I've actually shared this with clients often, especially the ones who are already things that some podcasters haven't even done yet and they're building community or they built community. I have a colleague who has built a massive community in the real estate space and every time he's on stage he should he doesn't, he should be saying pull out your phones, go to your favorite podcast app Apple, spotify, doesn't matter which one it is. Search the podcast, make sure you add it to your playlist. That is at least a good step, especially if you've already built that community. But I think we're getting there.

Carl Richards: 14:49

The other thing too, with the space is and I know it's an evolution is there's this misconception that podcasting is it's like the new radio, right, and it's just like radio, or it's just like television. Quite often I'll get asked well, what are the metrics? What's my listenership? How do I gauge that? And there are some, as you said. There's some tools out there that can help us, but it's still not a clear indicator of the success of a show versus, say, nielsen ratings or, or you know, large radio diary, uh, whatever they call it in the U S I know here it's a numerous where they they figure out who's listening to the radio and when that information is still in its infancy stages in the podcasting space, and it's a different medium altogether.

Kevin Palmieri: 15:31

Yeah, it's the wild west. I have clients who come in and say, okay, where do I find my stats? It's like, ah, I'm, you can find them on your host, whatever host we're using, and then you can go on Spotify for podcasters and Apple podcast connect. But outside of that, no, there really aren't that great of stats. Go check out YouTube. If you're putting it on YouTube, that's kind of helpful.

Kevin Palmieri: 15:51

But that's a conversation I have with people very early on is we have to understand what metrics are you trying to measure and why? Why do you want more listeners? Why, what is it about it? Well, I assume when I get more listeners I'll make more money. Eh, maybe I like to think of it as subscribers. I think subscribers is super important to look at and you can look at that on Spotify for podcasters and Apple Podcast Connect and it's a really good measurement of how sticky your content is.

Kevin Palmieri: 16:19

And I love looking at the consumption rate on Apple Podcast Connect. The consumption rate dictates how much of these episodes are people actually consuming? You could have the best guests in the world, you can have the best name in the world, you can have the best brand, the best marketing, the best everything, but if your audio quality is not good and people aren't sticking around, you're not going to be very successful. So that's a. I love the consumption rate because it signifies to me that you're producing good content that's sticky and you have a very, very loyal audience. And a loyal audience is an audience that will grow and it's also an audience that will move through your business. If you have a group, they'll go from the podcast to the group and if you have coaching or business opportunities, eventually that's the type of audience that would take advantage of what you're offering.

Carl Richards: 17:01

Yeah, 100%. And you touched on something that I want to springboard, because it's something that in the podcasting space I don't want to say it didn't exist, but it's certainly more front facing now than it was before, and that's the okay. I've listened to your episode, now what? And there's this huge push towards community. It's the, not just what you're doing during the show, it's the community you're building afterwards, it's the masterminds, it's the what's happening in the green room afterwards, which, by the way, ends up being bonus content, which is kind of nice if you want to talk about monetization, but it's also the it's developing more of that know like and trust factor, so people and people will consume this content. I think there's the trepidation that well, if I do that, is anybody going to show up, almost like there's that imposter syndrome people saying, well, I don't think anybody will come and listen after the show. Oh, yes, they will saying well, I don't think anybody will come and listen after the show.

Kevin Palmieri: 17:55

Oh, yes, they will, Sure they will Well. And the other. The other important piece of it is there's two types of calls to action. So I love what you talked about. Your buddy, the real estate person who has a call to action, should have a call to action for the podcast.

Kevin Palmieri: 18:07

Yes, you could easily say if you enjoyed this speech. Say, you're on stage in front of 500 people. If you enjoyed this speech, I actually have a course that's $1,499. And if you just click the link or you put your phone over this QR code, it'll take you right there. The conversion rate of that is going to be very, very small. But if you say if you enjoyed what we talked about here today in this speech I actually have a podcast where we do an episode every single week on content, just like this the conversion rate will ultimately be higher. So there's two types of calls to action there's highest probability and there's highest ROI.

Kevin Palmieri: 18:43

From what I've seen, the podcasts that create the most successful community business ecosystem are the ones that are relying on the highest probability, not the highest ROI. The highest ROI is not going to help you build a community because somebody is going to say, no, I don't want your product and then they're going to leave Instead of you saying if you enjoyed what we talked about today. I have a Facebook group, all about blink. It's totally free. You're going to fit in because it's going to be other podcast listeners and we do an episode once every week. For the other six days, you're going to have positive, inspiring content to help you gain momentum Boom. So that's another piece that I always tell people is if you do an episode a week, awesome, what are your audience members supposed to do for the other six days? They're going to go listen to another podcast or they're going to go find another group Might as well be your and you might as well put content in there as as consistently as you can, maybe not every day.

Carl Richards: 19:35

I know that's hard yeah, it's certainly, especially if you're a business owner. There's a number of other plates that you're spinning, so, of course, oh well, put content out there and again, you can be intentional about it, but it definitely can be a daunting process, but definitely it should be something that you're you're considering. I want to talk about this and I think we've maybe touched on it a little bit, but you're reaching over a million people. You're in more than 170 countries, and I know that some of that is statistical information that says, hey, look at where all your podcast listeners are, but did you anticipate that it would grow to that size? And what are some tips you could share with people to get there?

Kevin Palmieri: 20:10

No, I did not at all think it was going to grow to that size. I was hopeful that we would achieve some level of success, but I never expected it to be. We crossed the million dollar and the million listen mark on the same day, which to me was absolutely mind blowing, and that was two dreams come true that I didn't imagine could possibly happen. I did a poll recently in our Facebook group and this is another reason why groups are awesome, because you can get, you can get valuable data and the question was how did you find the podcast in the first place? And then I just I took all the answers and I went through and figured out okay, what was the most common one? The most common one was word of mouth. Word of mouth. Somebody told me about the podcast. Somebody told me about the podcast. Okay, why did somebody tell that person about the podcast in the very beginning? Carl, after a listener would self-identify, I would literally message them on Instagram, I would give them my phone number and we would hop on a FaceTime and I had nothing to sell. I had no products or no services. I just wanted to say, carl, thank you so much for listening to the show. Thank you for sharing. I appreciate it. I want to get to know you so I can make more aligned content for you. Those are the people that shared the podcast, because it went from I listen to this show to I actually know the people who do it.

Kevin Palmieri: 21:29

And a lot of people will say we get stuck in this piece where we say I only have like 10 people listening to my episode. That's a good problem to have because if you do it right, you can go find all of those 10 people. It's a lot harder to find a hundred thousand people. It's almost impossible, like that's going to take you a lot of time. But you don't need a million people to have a successful podcast. You need a thousand people who love what you do and tell other people about it, and that has always been our thought process.

Kevin Palmieri: 21:54

I do a lot of things that are not scalable. I will send people DMs, I will jump on free calls, I send audio messages, I send video messages, because I understand that the more quote unquote successful we get in, the more social proof we get, the more valuable that type of stuff is. So I think the simplest answer is we do a ton of one-on-one stuff, even if it doesn't lead to money, because that's the highest probability. The highest probability is if I talk to you behind the scenes, you'll come back and listen to the podcast. I might not make a dollar, but that's okay. You don't always make money with every interaction in a business. Sometimes it's going to the top. It's the long game. It's eventually. Maybe you'll sign up for something. If not, I get to know more about the audience and I can make better content because of it.

Carl Richards: 22:39

I think you hit the nail right on the head. There is there's so much of a race to the show me the money finish line, as opposed to the. I really need to build out the relationships and, by the way, you don't need to be doing a podcast every day, like Kevin is. You don't need to be doing all of those personal touches that Kevin is doing, although they're helping, obviously, but you certainly need to be intentional with what it is that you're doing so you can get to the point where you're getting the audience to follow you and ideally then touch your products and services and feel that they've developed enough of the KLT so that they will do that. And, by the way, this doesn't happen overnight. I'm sure Kevin, your first show or two or three or a hundred, like you said you weren't making a dime. If anything, you were losing money, but you weren't scratching your head saying, I wonder how I'm going to make money from my show. It was a process to get to and now it's a well-oiled machine, but it didn't happen instantly.

Kevin Palmieri: 23:44

I was losing lots of money. Yeah, I was losing a lot of money. We were traveling and going to events and meeting people and learning and growing and equipment and cameras and mics. I was losing a no-transcript and I worked with these five people for two months and at the end of the two months I said do you want to continue? I can't do this for free anymore. And everybody said yes and that was the proof of concept for me. That was the proof of concept.

Kevin Palmieri: 24:47

But if you think of the fact that I did eight calls for free, never talking about money adding value, adding value, adding value, adding value. Of course, if they're going to continue working with a coach, it's going to be me, because I've already added value and we already have the no like trust and they know who I am behind the scenes. There's something about when somebody gets to meet you behind the scenes and they see that you're the same as you are on the podcast, something changes because people feel like they already know you. So that was one of the best lessons I I ever learned and I think a lot of people are afraid to start there.

Kevin Palmieri: 25:20

A lot of people are afraid we're in this interesting place where I think, unfortunately, people are teaching other people to be entitled. Well, you need a $10,000 course? Oh, you only charge $150 an hour for coaching. You need to raise your prices. It's very hard to raise your prices if you don't have demand. You need demand and demand comes from over-serving and sometimes undervaluing your time in the very beginning, just to build momentum.

Carl Richards: 25:46

Yeah, 100%. And again, I think that's also business 101, where you can't just offer a $20,000 service or product if there is no proof of concept, right. So you're either offering it for free or it's a lower priced, it's a lower ticket item when you're starting right, because you don't have that proof of concept yet and people don't know who you are. Once you have that proof of concept, once people see you as a Tony Robbins or something like that, then okay, then you can charge Tony Robbins prices. That's when you can do it. You don't do it the other way around. And I think it's the same thing in the podcasting space. You can't have six episodes and 20 listeners and expect that. Well, now I can go make $10,000, $20,000, $30,000 off my show, because it's still not.

Carl Richards: 26:29

I mean, I have a colleague who shared with me that his journey was somewhere around episode 50, between 45 and 50 was where things started to. He saw his audience start to get bigger. He saw a little bit of revenue Again, it wasn't a lot at that point coming in from the show, and so it was about a year in for him going the one episode a week. But he said it took that long to build that out and again, unless you are already established in the world. Like you're a Joe Rogan, you have that celebrity status behind you. It's a journey world like you're a Joe Rogan, you have that celebrity status behind you. It's a journey and we really need to embrace and enjoy the journey as we're growing and not race to just because there's the potential of dollar signs somewhere and you have the opportunity to learn so much.

Kevin Palmieri: 27:16

Somebody asked me this yesterday. I was on a podcast that we were talking about podcasts. I love it. And this person said what else have you learned through the podcast? And I said well, when you have a podcast, you get to ask questions of guests. If you're having guests on, that's amazing. I've learned so much about business. I've had to consistently get outside my comfort zone. I've learned so much about audio editing, video editing, marketing, copywriting all of these things that I never thought I was going to have the opportunity to learn so much.

Kevin Palmieri: 27:43

To your point, carl, it's a journey and money is a very, very beneficial byproduct of you growing as a podcast, as a business owner, as an interviewer, as a speaker. But it is a byproduct. It's a byproduct of you adding value. If you go into this with a mindset of I'm going to add value to my audience, I think you're on the right path. If you go into this saying I'm going to make money from my audience, I probably wouldn't bet on you and, again, I'm wrong all the time. So I'm not saying you can't make it that way, but I think your audience can tell. That's why, you see, you can see a tick down when somebody goes from not running ads to running ads.

Kevin Palmieri: 28:27

One of my favorite things in the world to do is look at people's shows, especially big shows, when they go from not running ads to running a minute of ads, to two to four to five to six, because that's usually when they get their negative reviews, because people feel like something's changing here and you don't care as much about us as you used to. Now, obviously, that person wants to monetize and make money, so it's a fine line, but that's really good data to have because people can tell. People can tell your intentions. You might not sense it, but most people can tell.

Carl Richards: 28:54

Yeah, I think that's the misconception too in the podcasting space is the monetization attitude of, well, I just need to go get some sponsors, or I need to get some paid ads and that's going to. That'll solve all of my problems with as far as how the podcast is going to make money, as opposed to okay, well, how else can we leverage joint venture partnerships? How can we leverage content? How can we leverage community? How can we leverage coaching? What are some of the other aspects we could do? Even, how can we leverage having like a almost like a podcast co-op, where it's a few of us contributing content and really paying for the production ourselves, so we're basically hosting our own show, three or four of us and being contributors of the show.

Kevin Palmieri: 29:36

It's the creativity. Most of us won't make a meaningful amount of money from sponsorships, ads or affiliates. It's just, most of us aren't going to have the numbers to do it, but that's okay. But there's a bunch of other ways. If you have a podcast that talks about fitness and you're a fitness coach, you have a really good path to monetization. The podcast becomes lead generation, aligned lead generation, value add, community builder, content builder, test run, because you test out different titles and see what works and what doesn't. It becomes research and development. It becomes all of these amazing things and then you get to hone your offers.

Kevin Palmieri: 30:11

Well, I would like to charge $150 an hour. That's what I charge my other clients. Let me see if I can get that. That doesn't really work here. Okay, cool, but that's a really good aligned way. If you're a coach or business owner, the thing that you talk about at the top of your business model should be the thing that you make money on the bottom of your business model, but if not, then it creates a kink in the hose. If you're a lawyer and you have a podcast on cooking, it's not necessarily the best way to monetize in that regard. Obviously, there's other ways to do it but just as an example.

Carl Richards: 30:49

Right Kevin, this is a phenomenal discussion.

Kevin Palmieri: 30:50

I wish I could talk to you all day, likewise, my friend.

Carl Richards: 30:52

I do have a couple of questions, though, before I turn you loose. Number one is I need you to gaze into your crystal ball. So it's a fortune telling moment here for you. I see you have your crystal ball. Very good, he doesn't. I'm just letting you know he does not have a crystal ball. He's not dressed like he should have a crystal ball either. He doesn't look like a fortune teller. But question for you in your estimation, in your experience and opinion, where is this podcasting thing headed, say, over the next two to five years?

Kevin Palmieri: 31:21

I think AI is going to influence a lot, but I think everybody that's putting so much focus into AI is going to regret it, because I think the human element is being left out, and I think those that keep the human element in their podcast business and brand are going to really, really benefit from that. That's one I am hopeful. I don't know if I'd bet on it, but I am hopeful that the stats, analytics and measurement tools are going to get better in the next two to five years. I can't imagine they don't, but it's also been a long time. I would imagine that, and I think video content is going to continue to be the thing, and if you're not creating video content, it might be a good time to start practicing. Maybe it's one video that goes on Instagram every week, or whatever it is. Just get comfortable in front of video, because a lot of people are going to consume podcasts in video form, and I know a lot of people are afraid of getting in front of the camera. So those are probably three places I'd look Duly noted.

Carl Richards: 32:21

Yes, I know I'm due for a video version of this podcast. I've had more than one person say that and I know that wasn't directed at me personally.

Kevin Palmieri: 32:28

No, right, right right.

Carl Richards: 32:28

Yes, I know I need a video, Kevin, Thank you for reminding me. But again, I spent years in the audio space and this is you know, and podcasts started out as audio only and have been very successful in that space. I will say that audio is still, even in the video space. Without audio, there is no video and it goes back to that quality you spoke of earlier, where you can have awesome video or even not so awesome video, but if the audio quality is in the toilet, it's going to repel listeners as opposed to bring them into your camp. So thank you for your insights on that. Of course, Before I introduce the final thought, do you have any resources or something that you'd like to pass along to our listeners today?

Kevin Palmieri: 33:09

I have a podcast called Podcast Growth University, where I do an episode every single week on growing, monetizing, scaling podcasts. So it's totally free. There's no ads, there's no sponsorships. It's just me really trying to give away the best stuff I have. What have I learned? What are clients going through? So, yeah, that's on all the podcast platforms, on YouTube as well, and that's another podcast I will never miss an episode on. I guarantee I will put on an episode every single week. Rain, snow, sleet, shine, whatever's going on, I will get you an episode.

Carl Richards: 33:38

So if you like what you've heard today from Kevin speaking, definitely listen to the show. We'll make sure the links for all that are in the show notes as well. And again, before I turn you loose to go and probably record another podcast episode, the final thought on what we've talked about today.

Kevin Palmieri: 33:53

Expectations determine reality for most of us. So just be very, very cautious of what your expectations are and where they're coming from, because if your expectations are, I'm going to succeed, like the 1% of people. You might be in trouble and you might feel like you're doing something wrong when it's really just par for the course and you're playing the long game, certainly a great place to leave it and enjoy the journey because, as you've heard from Kevin, it's definitely a journey.

Carl Richards: 34:22

It's a fun journey and, Kevin, it's been a pleasure having you as my guest today. Thanks so much.

Kevin Palmieri: 34:24

Thank you, carl, I appreciate you

Carl Richards: 34:24

And thank you for joining us today. Special thanks to our producer and production lead, Dom Carrillo, our music guru, Nathan Simon, and the person who works the arms all of our arms, actually my trusty assistant, Stephanie Gafoor.

Carl Richards: 34:38

If you like what you heard today, leave us a comment and a review. And If you like what you heard today, leave us a comment and a review and be sure to share it with your friends. If you don't like what you heard, please share it with your enemies. Oh, and if you have a suggestion of someone who you think would make an amazing guest on the show, let us know about it. Drop us an email, askcarl at carlspeaksca. Don't forget to follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter as well. You'll find all those links in the show notes as well. You'll find all those links in the show notes. And if you're ready to take the plunge and join the over 3 million people who have said yes to podcasting. Let's have a conversation. We'll show you the simplest way to get into the podcasting space because, after all, we're podcast solutions made simple. We'll catch you next time you.