Building Authentic Community Beyond Platforms with Paul Gowder

What if everything you thought about building community around your podcast was incomplete? Paul Gowder, founder of PowWows.com and host of multiple podcasts, including "OTW with Paul," shatters common misconceptions about community building in this eye-opening conversation.

The secret to fostering genuine connection doesn't lie in fancy Facebook groups or Discord servers alone. As Paul reveals, "Community is everybody that feels a part of your group, your movement, and feels some type of connection to you and each other." This broader understanding transforms how creators approach audience relationships across all touchpoints. Drawing from his journey as an "accidental entrepreneur" who has built a thriving community since 1996, Paul shares practical wisdom applicable to podcasters at any stage.

At the heart of effective community building lies intentional communication. Whether crafting podcast episodes, emails, or social content, speaking directly to one person creates an intimate experience that resonates deeply. "When you're podcasting, speak like you're speaking to one person... don't start the show with 'Hey everybody.' Talk directly to one person; make them feel like it's just a conversation between the two of you." This approach mirrors radio fundamentals while acknowledging the uniquely personal nature of podcasting.

Most creators falter by limiting their vision of community to specific platforms or following formulaic content strategies. Paul challenges us to focus where our audience naturally engages rather than spreading ourselves thin across every platform. His evolution from flashy, impersonal newsletters to conversational emails demonstrates how authentic communication outperforms algorithm-chasing tactics every time. The conversation offers both a strategic framework and tactical advice for transforming your podcast from content delivery into community cultivation.

Ready to transform your approach to audience building? Visit paulgetter.com/email-tools to discover how Paul grew his email list to over 100,000 engaged subscribers, and take the first step toward creating genuine connection with your listeners.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Communication Connection Community
• 2:06 Paul's Journey as an Accidental Entrepreneur
• 3:26 Building Community Beyond Platforms
• 7:13 Creating Connection Through Content
• 12:20 Common Stumbling Blocks in Community Building
• 19:36 Email Marketing and Final Thoughts

Transcript

Carl: 0:04

Welcome to Communication Connection Community the podcaster's podcast. This podcast takes a deep dive into modern day communication strategies in the podcasting space. We chat with interesting people who make the podcasting and speaking spaces exciting and vibrant. We also dive into the podcasting community with news updates, latest trends and topics from this ever-evolving space. So strap in, it's going to be one amazing ride. Let's dive into today's episode, Paul. Welcome to the podcast.

Paul: 0:41

Oh, thanks so much. I really appreciate the time.

Carl: 0:43

It is always a pleasure to talk to a fellow podcaster, somebody who gets it, shall we say when we're sitting behind the mic and doing things, creating content, attracting audiences. It's fantastic to talk to you. You have more than one podcast, though, so tell me about the two podcasts that you have.

Paul: 1:01

Yeah, so I have one that I do with the PowWows. com side. So I have one called PowWow Life and that's just a way for me to share some of the things that I get to do with PowWows. com. So I get to meet some really cool people and go some places, so that's a chance to share some really cool interviews. Like, we just went to Alaska and got to do some tours up there with some native folks, so I shared some of that. And then the other one is one I just started recently and that's OTW with Paul and that is a podcast where I'm hoping to help entrepreneurs get on the way to developing the lifestyle they want to lead through leveling up their businesses.

Carl: 1:37

I don't think it's a matter of hoping, Paul. I think it's a matter of just knowing where our discussion is going to go today. It will be successful, because I think so many people definitely need to to get on that path, to get on their journey. So let's talk about so. First off, congratulations, Thank you. Not one podcast, but two. I've talked to people who have three and four. I'm like how do you do it? When do you run your business? When is there time for that? But anyways, congratulations, Paul. It's so great to have you here today. Tell me about your journey. How did you get to where you are today?

Paul: 2:06

You know I started building PowWows. com back in 1996 when I was in grad school. Never intended to be a business, it was just playing with the whole web, building web pages, you know, experimenting with stuff. I say I'm an accidental entrepreneur because I didn't intend for this to go to where it was, but it was a community right. When I started building those first few pages that I did, I started getting emails and messages from people saying they wanted to be able to interact with each other. They wanted to be able to share, they wanted that, the same feeling they have at a PowWow which that community and being together. They wanted that online too. So we we added forums and really embraced that community aspect and it just took off from there.

Carl: 2:47

Yeah, and I'm glad you touched on the part about community. That's what we will be talking about today, and it's funny how you two mentioned the accidental entrepreneur. I think there are a lot of people who fall into that category. They're between careers or something happens and they go. I'm going to just do this for a while and it ends up becoming a business, and they don't. How did that happen? Right?

Carl: 3:06

It's like I have a love of music, I'm going to collect records and see, and then it ends up becoming a business or something like that. Yeah, you never, know.

Carl: 3:13

Yeah, you just never know when those opportunities are going to, when they're going to land and how they're going to take shape. Certainly, embrace them, as you have done. Let's dive right into and talk about community, because I know this is a place where you shine. You're an expert in this and I think that as we engage in the discussion, it'll also bring us to your second podcast, because it's especially in the podcasting space, which is another reason why I'm glad you're here today, because you're a podcaster, you'll get this is. It's not just about the show. It's about the building of community outside of the show. So tell me about some of the community building blocks or things that people need to realize as they're thinking about, you know, leveling up to the phase or whatever that is with their show.

Paul: 3:59

What I see a lot of people doing now is thinking that community is only in a Facebook group or on your website or your Patreon, or you know that it's this group of people here, and community is just anybody who feels connected to you or connected to your messaging. Right, if they feel like they're a part of what you're doing, they're part of your community. So you know, that's the first thing I tell people is. However, you're touching your audience whether it's through a podcast, through email, through, you know, blog posts all of that needs to be written and done in a way that you're thinking about community, right? Don't just be shouting a message or feel like a lot of times, like Twitter is just people shouting stuff out, right? You have to embrace that idea that you're talking to somebody in your community, that you're having this exchange, no matter where you are, and that will really help. If you start thinking every piece of your content is building community, then you start really embracing that community feel.

Carl: 5:00

I think you hit the nail right on the head there when you said every piece of your content. So it starts with the content. Is your content designed in such a way that it even it attracts the community that you want, or are you attracting listeners who are just literally waiting to be?

Paul: 5:15

entertained also been a business mentor of mine, Lou Mangiello. He does WDW radio, great Disney podcast out there, and he he always says that you know, like when you're podcasting, when you're creating that type of content, speak to like you're speaking to one person. You know, don't start the show off. Hey, everybody, it's great to be here with you all. You know it's talk directly to one person, make them feel like it's just a conversation between the two of you, and that will go a long way. You know. Same thing if you're doing a live show on Facebook, you're not talking to. You know you're not in front of some big stage at a conference, you're talking directly to one person. So you know, recognize people by name, engage with them when you see their comments or whatever. You've got to really work that one-on-one relationship and then your community will really, really feel like they're a part of what you're doing.

Carl: 6:11

I'm glad you mentioned that, because that's radio 101. It's one of the things in my 25 years in broadcasting I learned very early on yes, you might be realistically, you're speaking to thousands of listeners but you don't say, hey, thousands of listeners out there on radio land. It's that one-on-one connection because when people are listening to you just in the radio sense, it's companionship. It's companionship, it's entertainment, it's all of those things. But if you really want to engage someone, it needs to be that personal connection. It applies to the stage as well, the physical stage.

Carl: 6:44

If you're giving a talk, you don't say, okay, everyone put up their hands. If, raise your hand if. And you physically do that as well, you physically raise your hand because there's the power behind monkey. See, monkey do If I put up my hand, there's a good chance you're going to do it too. If I say raise your hand if or when or whatever the wording is, but you're right to do it too. If I say raise your hand if or when or whatever the wording is, but you're right. That personal connection right from the beginning, within your content, it is crucial and it's something that I think podcasters miss. They miss the mark with that and they think that, or there's this perception that if I just throw my content out there, people will listen regardless. That's just not true.

Paul: 7:24

Yeah, that's, yeah, it's so, and I feel like podcasting is such you're in somebody's ear, whether they're in their car or at the gym or whatever. It can be a very intimate experience between you and your listener, so you've got to treat it like that. Don't treat it like you're, you know, like you said, you know, on a stage or something.

Carl: 7:41

This is a one-on-one conversation you're having in your podcast and yeah, you got to embrace it that way, but engage them where they are as well. I've often done that. I've said and again, this is back to the days when I worked on the radio If you're driving right now and you're heading East on such and such, expect delays because right so it's like oh, okay, and if you're not driving, it's okay, you tune it out, but you keep that in mind just in case for later you are driving that route, or, as you're constantly driving people with that personal connection. That, I think, is the first step to building your community, Because I think people want to find out more about you and what makes you tick, and not just more about you.

Carl: 8:28

But why you? Especially if it's a business type podcast. Why should I follow you? Why should I do business with you there? Or why should it be a part of your community? Why should I be a part of your? You know your movement. It's not because you're, you know, a good looking person and you sound good. No, it's because you have something of value to offer me and you're talking to. You're talking to me.

Paul: 8:52

Yeah, I do a lot of talk on on email marketing and helping people build their email relationships. There's a thousand people out there that can give you the same answers that I might give you. But yeah, you're looking for what is your experience, what's your take on it? How have you done it? You know what's your unique flavor.

Paul: 9:11

One of the things I've been working with some clients and I said every piece of content that is one thing I tell people like in email, in my weekly newsletters, with PowWows. com at the top of all the emails is my chance to interact with them personally, and so I write in the first person, I ask questions directly to them. I'm really talking that one-on-one thing, even in email, and it works so well and it was awesome. And we were up in Oregon this past weekend at a PowWow and I had several people come up and say, oh my gosh, I watched you on, you know, on your podcast, and they're like, ah, it's so good to finally meet you and you know they already felt like they had that relationship with me. It was. That was a really cool experience to to see the people come up and actually say that, to see the people come up and actually say that that was cool.

Carl: 9:56

So let's get to some of the nitty gritty. Then Give me what your definition of community is. How would you define it?

Paul: 10:08

For me, community is everybody that feels a part of your group, your movement, and feel some type of connection to you and each other. So with PowWows. com, that is everybody who, whether they're engaged with our Facebook, our email, our YouTube videos, our live streams, whatever if they feel like they are a part of you and connect with you in some way, then they're part of your community.

Carl: 10:28

How do you go about building that community then? What were some of the earlier steps that you and I know this goes beyond the podcast, but thinking of podcasters too, but just in general, what were some of the earlier steps that you and I know this goes beyond the podcast, but thinking of podcasters too, but just in general, what were some of the steps that you had to take to build that community?

Paul: 10:42

You know, early on, it's recognizing what type of what is your audience looking for. How do they want to engage, what is it that they need answers to? And when you deliver that to them, then they will start to. You know, oh, oh, he is talking to me.

Paul: 10:59

Okay, in the early days it was for for PowWows. com. It was literally just giving them a platform to talk, right, and a lot of times it was just I just had to get out of the way because what they wanted was to be able to exchange with each other. Once I figured out how to do that and the technology back in 1996, it was a lot different. But once we presented them with a platform, it's like hey, look, you can talk with each other, you can make these posts and have replies and have these chats. Then they felt like they were a part of that group. Later on, after social media did that part for us, it was figuring out okay, well, what is it more in depth, what are you looking for? If we answer your questions about going to a powwow, if we provide you with a calendar of events, there's your content and we can start developing, you know, and answering those questions, answering those needs, and again they start feeling like they're part of it, because you are delivering what they want.

Carl: 11:54

So, as you're building your community, then and you're posing some great questions here as you're going are you asking these questions of your community? What is it that you want? Are you taking surveys or doing, you know, checking in to see what their needs are now and maybe what their needs might be moving forward?

Paul: 12:10

Yeah, you know I used to do a yearly survey and it was an expensive thing and it was. You know. I printed out this hundreds of pages and I'd scroll through it. Now, because you know it's social media, I get those kind of answers and comments easier and more frequently. Now it's just I can listen to the audience when they post something. But yeah, I'm still like emails.

Paul: 12:29

I ask all the time. You know what are your questions. I have a email sequence that goes through what to expect at your first powwow for people who aren't really in the culture and kind of want to go and experience it for the first time. And the last email in that sequence is okay, I've given you all this information. What's holding you back now? What is that one thing that's preventing you from going to that PowWow? What else can I do for you to get you to go and have that first experience? And then I get some responses to that and maybe then I go back and rework the email sequence. Maybe then I can go and answer those questions better and figure out what I didn't deliver. Yeah, asking those questions is a great way to then build more content.

Carl: 13:11

What are some of the things that you've noticed along the way as you built your community, but then, as you've seen others or even helped others build up theirs, what are some of the stumbling blocks that people encounter in that space?

Paul: 13:23

For me, I've had to remind myself of that same. What I talked about earlier is the messaging and delivering, talking directly to people. I've failed at that. When I first started doing email at first I was just using our forums to deliver email to people and then when I started doing my email newsletter, for the first few years it looked like a Sunday morning sales paper. It was really fancy, flashy, lots of colors, these nice layouts and it was really me just bombarding people with information and sure it got some clicks and it got traffic or whatever. But when I switched over to writing emails in the first person and more text-based and being more relationship-driven, my email took off right. It became a huge part of what we do. So that's one of the things I think you just need to remind yourself.

Paul: 14:11

Going back to what I said earlier every piece of content how can you deliver it in a way that it's going to make people feel like they're part of you? You know we do the same thing on when we're writing articles. If I'm working with writers or whatever, you know, I tell them we're not Wikipedia, right? We're not trying to write some kind of textbook type article, even though we may be covering a historical topic or you know a profile of somebody. It needs to be written like it's a conversation, a one-on-one, you know, and you can say things in there like oh my gosh, I really like this and I think you will too, you know. Or oh my, oh, I just learned this, let me tell you more about it. You can use that type of language in your articles.

Paul: 14:53

That's one of the things I think a lot of people struggle with. But then again, too, I see so many people again just relying on a Facebook group to be their community and not really embracing that whole community is everywhere thing. I have a Facebook group, I have a couple PowWows. com for and that's one of those places. I just get out of the way most of the time and I just let people that's just a place for them to engage with each other. I don't even look at that anymore as an active part of how I go and engage with the audience. It's just so much noise in there, right. So you've got to find a way that you can interact with your audience and what's the best platform to do that? What's the best, and then embrace that and work on that and maybe, like me, maybe your group is very active and has lots of stuff going on, but that may not be the best way that you engage with the community right? It just may be their community place to go and hang out.

Carl: 15:45

I guess also with social media, we've learned and if we haven't learned we've been asleep that there's so many rules or algorithms or limitations or whatever it is that make it challenging to have that as a space, that it's so many rules or algorithms or limitations or whatever it is that make it challenging to have that as a space, that it's a you know, let's face it all social media platforms they need to make money.

Carl: 16:04

Yes, they want to make money. That's why they are there. They are business, so they're going to engage or allow you to engage, limited, in a limited fashion, or have those views or likes or shares or discussions or whatever. Because of that, right. So, but I like how you, how you shared that it's not just one spot, it community is everywhere, and I think that's one of the pieces that we miss is we think that, oh, I need to. You know, if I want to build community, I need to have a Facebook group or I need to have a whatever here, and I need to, and that's all I need to do. A lot of people see.

Paul: 16:39

Their first experience with PowWows. com now is our live streams. We stream 20 to 30 PowWows live a year, and so I have a lot of people that they watch our live streams and don't realize what else we do. And so if you only think of your Facebook group or you only think of your Patreon or whatever it is, as your community, you're losing a whole group of people out there. You know, all the time I have people write me and go oh my God, I loved your live stream. But you know I'm looking for this information and I'll say, well, hey, we have this page right here. We answer all those questions and they're like oh my God, I didn't know you had all this Right. Remember that because of algorithms and all this other crazy stuff, people may only be seeing this much of your whole ecosystem, but they still feel a part of your community, so make sure you get them wherever they are.

Carl: 17:27

I think the first step, too, that we talked about earlier and that we mentioned, I think, more than once in our conversation, is, if you're at the starting gate, think of your content first. If you think, oh, it's time to build community, or I haven't built community, it starts with the content itself. Right Bar none, it starts with content.

Paul: 17:45

Yes, yeah, and write that content for a conversation. Yes.

Carl: 17:49

And that's the part too that I wanted to mention was the writing for the ear versus writing for the eye. We are so trained to write for the eye. We're taught in school, we write essays and book reports and later on theses and things like that. That's writing for the eye and we're really good at it. But when it comes to writing conversationally unless you've studied radio broadcasting or some type of media which I have or understand a conversational tone it's tricky when you're getting started to do that or we think that, or what we think is conversational really isn't. And sometimes people read my emails, even ones that I send personally, and they'll think I'm sitting right there because I write conversationally almost to a fault all the time when you're writing content for your website.

Paul: 18:38

So many people now are writing for Google, and Google is even now come out and said stop doing that. Right. Your content needs to be helpful and answer the reader's questions or queries or why they went to you. Right. You need to be really focusing on delivering the value to them, not writing for SEO, and some of my site got hit by some of these Google changes too, and we all have to figure out how we, you know, engage with our readers better and stop writing just for these search engines.

Carl: 19:09

Yeah, seo is important, but it's not, it's not the be all end all. Let's face it. Yes, google is a big company, but it's not the only company, and it shouldn't be just well, google says, do this, well, that's nice. If Google said, jump off a cliff, you probably wouldn't do it Right. So so you really need to think about what it is that your goal is.

Carl: 19:31

And and also, yes, of course, you can't ignore the fact that that the SEO is important, but again, the language, the you know playing within the rules or within the boundaries, but then also it still has to serve. Not only serve you as the business owner, but if you're building community, it has to serve your community. It can't just be for SEO purposes. Yeah, exactly, wow, paul, I could probably talk to you for the next hundred years about this, but I think we've done a really good job at establishing some credibility with the importance of building community and some of the keys to get started. So you've got some great resources, though that our listeners, I know, would love to hear, so share with us about that resources though, that our listeners I know would love to hear, so share with us about that.

Paul: 20:23

You know, like I talked about email for PowWows. com, I feel like email is really the heart of our community now. It's where I am able to talk one-on-one to people and not worry about algorithms. So if you're looking to level up your email, I've got some resources on how I grow my email list. So paulgetter. com/ email tools and I'll show you some of the tips and tricks that I do to grow my email list to now over a hundred thousand subscribers.

Carl: 20:44

Wow, phenomenal. And we'll make sure that that link and your other social links as well. Any other relevant links are in the show notes. Paul Getter, it's been a fantastic discussion today. Before I turn you loose to expand your community or start another podcast, I'll leave you with the final thought, my friend.

Paul: 21:09

Final thought is you know, I think community is so important and so many people out there are trying to figure out these algorithms and building their content and putting their content on every single platform and, you know, just feel like a shotgun approach to social media. I want to tell people really to niche down and figure out where your audience is. If your audience is really engaging with your content on LinkedIn, right, if that's your place, then put your time and effort there. Stop worrying about that. Well, everybody tells me I have to post on Facebook. Well, if you're not getting any engagement there and your community is not there, don't do it. Right, focus on where your community is. Put your time and effort there. You don't have to be everywhere. Sure, that's a valid strategy or whatever. But if your audience is on a platform, really engage with them there, double down on it and watch it grow from there.

Carl: 21:59

And, as you're watching it, grow, have fun doing it and engage Paul. It's been a phenomenal conversation. Thank you so much for being my guest today.

Paul: 22:05

Thank you, sir. I really appreciate it. I've enjoyed the conversation.

Carl: 22:08

And thank you for joining us today. Special thanks to our producer and production lead, Dom Carillo, our music guru, Nathan Simon, and the person who works the arms all of our arms, actually my trusty assistant, Stephanie Gafoor. If you like what you heard today, leave us a comment and a review, and be sure to share it with your friends. If you don't like what you heard, please share it with your enemies. Oh, and if you have a suggestion of someone who you think would make an amazing guest on the show, let us know about it. Drop us an email, askcarl@ carlspeaks. ca. Don't forget to follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter as well. You'll find all those links in the show notes, and if you're ready to take the plunge and join the over 3 million people who have said yes to podcasting, let's have a conversation. We'll show you the simplest way to get into the podcasting space, because, after all, we're podcast solutions made simple.

Carl: 23:03

We'll catch you next time.