From Refugee Roots to Podcast Routes with Julie Pham, PhD

Four and a half rejections and still pushing forward—that’s how Julie Pham, PhD, found her footing on the TEDx stage and, later, across 66 podcast guest appearances. We dive into the real mechanics of turning a complex personal journey—refugee roots, historian training, community organizing, and Seattle tech—into a clear message listeners remember and hosts want to book.

Julie breaks down the core idea behind her book, Seven Forms of Respect: respect feels the same but often looks different. From CC’ing everyone to prove transparency to keeping inboxes light to show trust, these mismatched “looks” spark friction at work. She shares how to name and align expectations so teams communicate better and collaborate faster. Then we get practical. Instead of waiting for invitations, Julie treats guesting like a craft and a numbers game: research shows that are still publishing, listen for tone and the closing question, write short pitches, and include 2–3 custom episode titles in the host’s style. We talk boundaries—what not to discuss—and how to stay specific with stories so your ideas stick.

There’s also a frank look at preparation. Some hosts send long questionnaires; others prefer a loose flow. Julie adapts to both, but she always keeps bullet-note stories ready to avoid rambling and to protect the edit. For new hosts and guests, her mantra is simple: do the best you can with today’s resources. Quality matters, perfection stalls. Learn in public, iterate fast, and let curiosity be the muscle you train, not a trait you either have or don’t.

If you’re ready to sharpen your message, land better bookings, and show up with clarity and warmth, this conversation gives you the playbook. Subscribe for more smart, real-world conversations on podcasting, communication, and community. And if this episode helped, share it with a friend and leave a quick review—it makes a big difference.

Chapters

• 0:04 Welcome and Julie’s Introduction
• 1:09 Why TEDx and Handling Rejection
• 3:15 Julie’s Career Pivot and Founding CuriosityBased
• 4:56 Writing Seven Forms of Respect
• 6:11 Why Podcast Guesting Became the Strategy
• 8:19 Lessons From 66 Guest Appearances
• 10:16 Pitching That Works vs What Fails
• 12:06 Podmatch Tactics and Boundaries
• 14:08 Vetting Shows and Avoiding “Gotcha” Formats
• 16:20 Host Styles, Prep, and Managing Expectations
• 19:05 Start Simple: Quality Within Your Resources
• 21:14 Curiosity as a Practice, Not a Trait
• 23:20 Helping Guests Shine and Reduce Rambling
• 25:04 Researching the Audience to Be Relevant
• 28:40 Gratitude, Growth, and The Leap to Hosting
• 29:22 Where to Find Julie and Final Takeaway

Transcript

Carl: 0:04

Welcome to Communication Connection Community, the Podcasters Podcast. This podcast takes a deep dive into modern-day communication strategies in the podcasting space. We chat with interesting people who make the podcasting and speaking spaces exciting and vibrant. We also dive into the podcasting community with news, updates, latest trends and topics from this ever-evolving space. It's going to be one amazing ride. Let's dive into today's episode. And our guest today is Julie Pham, PhD. She's a Vietnamese-born, American-raised refugee, Cambridge-trained social scientist, an award-winning community organizer, and Amazon best-selling author. We'll find out what she's written. And she is a TEDx speaker. We both share having been on a TEDx stage. And I'm so thrilled that she's joining us today, sharing with us her experiences about her journey through podcasting. Julie, welcome to the podcast.

Julie: 1:06

Thank you so much for inviting me on, Carl.

Carl: 1:09

I have to ask, before we give a little bit of your background, what brought you to the TEDx stage? What was it? Was it an ambitious thing, or did somebody say you should come on our TEDx stage?

Julie: 1:19

Oh no, it was an ambitious thing. I wanted to be on that TEDx stage. It will tell you I got rejected four and a half times.

Carl: 1:25

Four and a half times.

Julie: 1:27

Four and a half times, because one was I got to the finals and then they told me that they ran out of funding. And so they were gonna have to pull it. And so that's why I say half, because I was really close and it wasn't because of me. And so when people say, Well, how do you do TEDx? And I'm like, you got to be persistent.

Carl: 1:45

That's what that's true. And I remember here where I am in Eastern Ontario, Canada, we have TEDx Queens U. And I remember applying, I think, twice. Then they held an open mic event, which is sort of a way for them to bring in some of the student speakers, but they will still bring in community speakers or other expert speakers to the platform. And I remember, you know, after I said, Hey, you know, thanks for the opportunity to be on this open mic stage. And the one of the organizers said, Well, we'd love to have you speak at TEDx, but we like what you're doing so much as an MC and your broadcast experience. Would you consider MCing TEDx for us next year? And I said, Yeah. Wow. So I was a TEDx MC before I was a TEDx speaker. Both very cool experiences. And yeah, I certainly get the, you know, you need to put yourself out there and allow yourself to be rejected a couple of times or four and a half times, uh, and then continuously keep going after it because it's a phenomenal experience. Not only do I think that people learn a lot from that experience, but it exposes them to so many great opportunities after being on the stage. I'm sure you experienced that.

Julie: 2:58

Oh my gosh, it was a transformational experience.

Carl: 3:01

So glad we have that in common. There's one thing we have in common for sure. And we're podcasters, and we'll talk about that momentarily. How did you get to where you are today? Give me the backstory of Julie.

Julie: 3:12

Okay, so let's see here. I am trained as a historian and I realized I didn't want to stay in academia. So I left academia and went back to help from my family's Vietnamese language newspaper in during the start of the Great Recession. So 2008, I was there for three years and I got my real life MBA. And then I was really tired of not getting paid and just struggling all the time. And I'm based in Seattle, which has a really big tech industry. So then I was able to find my way into tech and I spent nine years there. And all this time I did a lot of uh community organizing. I got my second real life PhD in organizational development. And that's when I realized, whoa, I think I can make, I was doing a lot of work around curiosity. I was, I think I can make a business out of this. So in the middle of the pandemic, I started Curiosity Based. And uh that was the start of uh 2021. And I gotta tell you, Carl, I loved my job and it was a great job. And the only way I'd leave this nonprofit executive job in the middle of the pandemic was because I just felt called to start my own company. And so that's what I'm doing now.

Carl: 4:19

I think so many people can share that story, even listeners about how, you know, in 2020, I had to pivot for business or just things that happened. So it's ironic that because that's when we actually launched Podcast Solutions Made Simple was, and like you, I loved my job. I loved what I was doing in broadcasting. I wouldn't have done it for 25 years if I didn't love it. Other than the fact that radio was like a narcotic, it gets in your veins, and once it's in there, it's hard to get it out. But same thing though, if you love a job, why would you leave it? Right. So, but you figured out that this was your calling and this was your path. So, what was it then that brought you to the podcasting space? You've left this fantastic career, you've launched a company, and you're getting on podcasts as a guest. What was it that led you there?

Julie: 5:04

So I wrote this book, Seven Forms of Respect, uh, about how we can agree on how respect feels to feel seen, heard, acknowledged, and yet we disagree on what it looks like. And so, Carl, you and I may have, for example, do you want me to CC you on all the emails? Or don't CC me unless you need something from me. And so, in any case, I had this book that I self-published, and I was just, I gotta get this message out in the world. I gotta hustle. And you know, my parents started a Vietnamese newspaper to serve our Vietnamese community. So I think of my myself as or my parents as the hustlers among hustlers. So I saw getting on podcasts and being a guest on podcasts as a way to hustle and to share the message with the world.

Carl: 5:46

It sounds like you had that entrepreneurial spirit, though, based on what you learned from being with your parents too. And you, even though you had that fantastic job, it was calling. It was calling your name. It was a calling. Do this. You need to do this while you can, or it's something that you should consider. Let's talk about your experience as a guest, because this is certainly something that a lot of people who are trepidatious of getting on podcasts, they go, I don't want, I don't know what I'm going to talk. What would I talk about? What would I do? So, what's that journey been like for you as a guest? What are some of the things that you've learned guesting on shows?

Julie: 6:18

Oh my gosh, so many things learned and so many mistakes made.

Carl: 6:23

Oh, welcome to the world of podcasting. You made a mistake, welcome. It's a day that ends in why.

Julie: 6:29

So I would say I have actually just before I came on today, I actually counted up how many. So I keep a tracker of actually how many podcasts I've been on, and I've guested on 66 podcasts to date. And I would say about 80% of them are ones I pitched. So only 20% of them were ones that people reached out to me and invited me. So I think I just want to show that's a big myth. Oh, you will get invited to be on podcasts. Like, no, oftentimes if you're not world famous and I'm not world famous, then you've actually got to hustle and find your way to get on podcasts. And so I think of podcasts as also one of the reasons why I wanted to do it, aside from sharing the message, was to practice sharing the message. That real life interaction with someone, and they're asking me questions that I hadn't thought of before, it sharpens my ability to talk about my work. And so even though my book came out in 2022, I feel like so much has changed because of the questions that I've gotten. Another thing is I don't just talk about my book when I am, I guess, not a podcast. I actually have different aspects of who I am. And so, and this is something actually for anyone who is considering guesting. So, for example, if you have a business, you might feel, oh, well, people don't want to hear about my business or it feels really salesy. Well, there's probably some other aspects of who you are that you do feel comfortable talking about. And then that can make it more comfortable to talk about your business later on. So I think the first thing is to think about what are the different things I could talk about. And so for me, yes, I could definitely talk about my book. And I would say 50 to 60% of the time I'm on podcasts, I'm talking about my book. I can also talk about being an entrepreneur. I can also talk about being a female leader. I can talk about being a refugee. I can talk about being having been in the nonprofit space and the tech space, about Vietnamese history, because actually I'm trained as a historian. So you'd be surprised actually. And this is actually the fun thing of when um discovering how many podcasts there are out there. Like one had it was a podcast on how do you organize your home? And I'm just, you know, I feel like I have a pretty unique story there. So I'm gonna share that. Or grieving. Talk about your grief story. My my dad passed away three years ago, and so sharing about that. So yeah, I think that why it's to get my story out to practice, refining, sharing it. I never look at how many, how big the podcast is. Because honestly, if if one more person knows of my story, that's enough.

Carl: 9:05

It's funny because I think so many people do look at those numbers. They say, Oh, that's a big show, or oh, that guest isn't very famous. We don't want them on there. I think it's doing the podcast community and at large a disservice by by not doing that, because there are a lot of interesting people out there. The fact that they're not Joe Rogan or Oprah or John Assaraph or any of those big names that we've we've come to know over the years, doesn't make them any less valuable. And their stories might even be more impactful than those ones. So, what are some of the tricks that you've learned? Because that's that's one of the things that you're you're saying here is you can talk about all of these topics that you mentioned, but it's not just about talking about them, it's about sharing an impactful story. How do you go about doing it? What's some of the preparation that you've done to make those stories land with the audience?

Julie: 9:55

To be specific, to give very specific examples. I I know when I hear interviews and people are just speaking these generalities, do this, don't do this. So, for example, I'll give you some specific examples of actually starting with how to the some of the early mistakes I made in terms of trying to source podcasts. So before I discovered PodMatch, I went onto Fiverr and I got a research of hey, can you find me? I think it was like 50 podcasts that I could be on, and here's the general profile. And then they also sent me this kit, this letter. And I spent so much time writing these beautiful, heartfelt letters to each of these podcasts hosts that most of them got ignored. And and you know, I would listen to the podcast too, and I would just pour my heart out trying to pitch. And I I think actually I maybe had three or four podcasts from that method. So then I discovered Podmatch. Carl, I never did online dating. Podmatch is the closest thing I've ever done to online dating.

Carl: 10:56

Because that's how Alex sells it. He says it's Tinder for podcasters. That's exactly what he says.

Julie: 11:01

I know. So it's it's actually interesting because I'm like, oh, this is what it's like, which means also it's a numbers game. Yeah, it's a numbers game, right? And so there, so in the beginning, a mistake I made on Podmatch was I would just, oh, I'm gonna write these long letters on Podmatch with all these links. And that didn't get me very far either, because no one wants to read those. And you were just telling me how many pitches you get all the time as a host. And now I understand. So then I was just okay, well, that's not working. So maybe I just write these short little things. And now what I do is I will look at the pod uh, because I usually use Pod matches. It's like, okay, let me, and they'll suggest some some people, and then I'll go in and I'll look at their their episodes and just okay, do the titles look relevant? Do I look like I would have a message to share? Do they actually interview guests? Some podcasts they say they do, but you go on and no, they're just all solo shows, the top them talking. Do they have recent shows? Because you know, so many podcasters stop. So if they haven't done anything recently, then I'm not gonna bother messaging them. And then writing a really short note about the things that I think are most interesting about me that would also be relevant to them. And something I've just started doing is I look at their titles and then I try to write a few titles, suggest a few titles in their style to help them imagine me being on their show and to make it just a little easier for them. So those are just now how I've evolved my pitching. And and also here's another thing there are gonna be a lot of no's, a lot of people not swiping on you, and that's okay. It's a numbers game.

Carl: 12:44

Don't take it personally. There are thousands I don't need, I don't know how big that platform is. By the way, for the record, I think that, and I've said this more than once, Alex needs to start paying me a royalty. But the number of times I mention Pod match, either in conversation with people or on this podcast. So he has to pay me a royalty or something, or fly me around the world, you know, for a year, whatever. Or maybe I'm just a spokesperson. I don't know. But seriously, you're right. There is a certain amount of rejection that you you need to be ready for because there are thousands, if not 10,000 or 12,000 podcasters out there, and you might not be you might not be a fit, number one, as is what's happened with me. I've received well over 80 invitations to be on my show. That's a lot. So it might take me a while to get back to you as I clear my back catalog of requests already that I'm working flute through. So there might be a delay in that. There also might be, as you said, there are podcasters that are only doing solo episodes. Maybe they want to do guesting, but they either have been tapped out or whatever it is. Don't take it personally, as you said, because as soon as you take it personally, you're playing the wrong game. It's not about you, it's about, as you said, it's about the numbers.

Julie: 14:03

Yeah. And I think actually, I always, once I looked at the titles, I'm like, I think I could be a good fit. Then I try to listen to a couple of episodes. And sometimes I'll go way back, years back, right? And you're just kind of looking for things that are interesting. And then when I pitch, I will often say, Oh, I heard your episode on this, or I heard your episode on this. Because I know podcasters like, oh, you actually you listen. You're not just trying to push your message, but it also helps me understand what I actually want to be in a conversation with this person. Because some people have really aggressive interview styles where they're trapping the guest. And I made that mistake. I made that mistake. I didn't listen. And then I went on one and it was Carl, it was so bad. And I think he thought it was bad too because it never went live. So I think he somehow thought that I was super politically, I don't know what. So he was trying to bait me. And I, my whole work is on curiosity and trying to understand different perspectives. And so also here's another thing I learned. You have to know your boundaries of what you're not going to talk about. So I tell people I don't want to talk about political issues.

Carl: 15:13

Yep. There are definitely things that you and you need to be able to draw that line. You need to be able to say, I'm not going to talk about, you know, sex and sexuality, lifestyle, politics, religion, you know, anything that's could upset the flow of the show, unless you're on a religious podcast, in which case, by all means, talk talk about religion. But for most people, they're not getting on those shows. And if they are, then obviously they're there for that reason. But you're right, you need to know what those boundaries are. I've had individuals on my show and I've been on shows where people try to go down those paths and I skate around them. Or I will just not say anything, or they'll say something trying to bait an answer from me, and I'll just smile and look pretty. They'll wonder why I'm not responding. Yeah, very good point about that. And I'm hoping I'm not baiting you. I'm hoping I'm hoping this is a this is a free-flowing conversation. Please, yes, yes, yes. Okay, good, okay, good.

Julie: 16:09

Well, it depends on the question. I do not feel baited right now. So, um, and then also what's been really interesting too is how different podcast hosts have different styles. And some, I mean, I know, Carl, from listening from previous podcast episode of yours, that you don't send questions out ahead of time. Right. Okay. Some are super, I mean, I have somewhere just, whoa, you just sent me two pages of single spaced questions.

Carl: 16:35

Right.

Julie: 16:36

And and some are just really, oh, here's the form, and these are the questions. And so it's the styles are all over the place. And I really try to be, as the guests, mindful of what the host is, what their preferences are, and to be prepared for that. So I will, if it's super casual, then I can be super casual. If it's super prepared, then I will prepare for that. And um, and some want these pre-calls. And so, okay, if you want a pre-call, I will say you also have to know, because some podcast hosts have such they make you jump through so many hoops. I'm like, okay, I'm not doing that. There was one actually recently where it's just well, watch this video. Okay, I can do the things in the video, and now you can you do all of these things? You know, this long list, and he also said, And you might still not get on my podcast. And I was just okay, I'm not doing this because I'm not on some world famous show here. It's just so you also have to think about for you how much work you are willing to put into being a guest and how much they are asking you for. And are you willing to do that? And is it worth your time?

Carl: 17:45

Yeah, it should be, in my opinion. And again, I come from a place of experience where I can have a conversation with people. Spent 25 years doing it professionally on radio, so it's not like it's something that I feel like I need a litany of information in order to engage in a conversation with you. That's just me. If you're going to send questions out or need questions for people, that's fine. But again, my challenge with that is if you send a list of questions, and I like your example of single space, two pages. Firstly, that's a lot of questions, number one. And second, then every episode is pretty much going to sound the same. No episode will sound exactly like the one we're having, because I will not remember because it's a memory thing, but also I will not remember exactly everything you and I talked about the next time I talk to a guest, but I also will not remember word for word what our conversation was. And it's it'll be a different person, it'll be a completely different person, even if we're talking about aspects of storytelling, organizing your your thoughts or your you know, preparing to be a sought-after guest, which you are, you are a sought-after guest.

Julie: 18:54

Only 20% of the time.

Carl: 18:59

Sought after guest. But seriously, if you're too prepared or too formalaic, that's a tune out for the audience, right? This isn't a game show where people come to be entertained. In some cases, this is this is for business, this is for edutainment. It's it's a number of reasons, but people are coming. And if you want them to keep coming back, no disrespect to my fellow podcasters, but if you're asking the same drivel type questions every time, it grows stale after a while, in my opinion, and in my experience.

Julie: 19:33

Well, I mean, I will actually so my because I've just started a podcast, the Curiosity at Work podcast, and I actually do have a set of questions. It's also for me, my podcast is not for, or I should say, I'm managing my own expectations as a podcast host. I'm not, oh, I'm gonna have so many people listening all the time. Actually, for me, it's at this stage, it's how do I have a conversation with a client or a prospective client and learn their pain points.

Carl: 20:03

You're also, if I could just just back the train up a bit here, you're also very new as a host. So of course you're going to have questions. When I was, oh, I don't know, year two or upwards of year three, I would still write out three or four or five questions as I was prepping the guest just before we hit record. So I didn't have a pre-call like some podcasters do. What I would do is we would just map out and I would just make some questions there. Now, honestly, I have no questions in front of me that I'm asking you. We're just having an organic conversation. Okay, even that has taken a while. So, of course, you're going to have some questions or some structure or some framework. Something will evolve and you'll be able to have a free-flowing conversation or prep differently than you are now. I'll almost guarantee it.

Julie: 20:49

Absolutely. I know that will be the case because I even just look at my own, I look at my own business and how much I've changed. I've looked at even just the way I think about curiosity has changed. And I I think just start. Oftentimes people are, oh, it's gotta look exactly like this. And it's just no, I mean, I think we just people just gotta start. And that's where I was just like, you know, I mean, the design on my podcast, I'm like, you know what, it's good enough. Like I often actually approach business like this. It's like, and I'll tell my team, like, you know, it's good enough. Let's keep moving. And I like to ask, what are we going to learn? Yes, we have goals that we want to achieve, but what are we going to learn regardless of what we achieve?

Carl: 21:32

Sure. The fine-tuning of quality, and I believe quality is very important. So you do need to put out a quality product. You do need to put out a quality product, but your quality product when you're starting will be different again, even six months from now or a year from now, when you're 52 or 60 or whatever it is, episodes into your show, your quality and your experience, because of your experience, it'll change. You'll realize that. And if you go back and listen to those first 10 episodes, you'll be like, oh my goodness, what was I thinking? But you'll level up. And that's the thing, you always leveling up. We're not flying around in aircraft that look like what Orville and Wilbur created. They've evolved a little bit since then, right? So so will your podcast and so will your experience, and so will your, you know, your expectations in business and all of those things. What I like about what you do professionally is you're allowing yourself and you help people to remain curious through this process.

Julie: 22:33

Yes. Speaking a little bit about curiosity for a bit, I think of curiosity as a skill, as a practice, not as a trait. We talk about it as a trait. What that means is, oh, you just need to be curious, which kind of implies you're not curious, and I am curious, right? And yet we are all curious. We just sometimes we choose not to practice it. And so, with I would actually do a little reframe on what you were saying about the quality product, and I'd say, yes, we want quality product. We want to do the best we can considering the current resources we have. So, right, because at some point, I'm not a perfectionist, actually. Like I am anti-perfectionist. It's just this is the best that we're gonna do considering our resources right now. And I think that's actually what gets in the way of because I mean, honestly, if I wanted to have the podcast, the ideal podcast that I kinds that I love to listen to, it would not happen. And actually, before I started podcasting, I would do LinkedIn Lives and I learned a lot through that because LinkedIn Lives, what's nice is they're so fast, like easy to produce, and it gets that interview. I learned a lot from that. And I did that for a few years before I was just okay, it's time to do the podcast.

Carl: 23:46

Absolutely. And I'm I'm glad you emphasize that. And you're right, it's based on where we're at right now. When I was starting out as a broadcaster, I would write everything out word for word, line by line, literally everything. And then at the end of my career, I didn't need to do that. I didn't need to come in with that level of preparation. It it I still needed to come in prepared, but it didn't need to be written out word for word. I could look at stories or I could pick something up out of the uh newspaper or magazine or online article that I've read and talk about it and have it in front of me and not feel I had to write stuff out verbatim of how I was going to address it. Unless there was something specific, a punchline, a hook, or something like that that I needed to create, that I made sure I had written out. But other than that, everything was very organically happening because your brain is a muscle, right? So I strengthened that part of my brain to be able to think on my feet. And just like, you know, just like your your show, I remember too, a podcast have evolved. Podcasts have evolved. Podcasts were literally you listen to them on an iPod, right? That's where the whole term came from. Now they're video podcasts, audio and video. There's all transcription pieces, there's there's shorts, there's real, there's there's all different types of things that we attune and all started from somewhere and it's evolved based on where we're at at a particular moment in time. You can't go beyond that. Here's where you are. You can't put yourself in the future. Okay, mentally you can prepare for it, but you can't just okay, I'm in future time now, I'm in Star Trek mode. No, it doesn't. You can't transport yourself into the year 2030. Sometimes I wish I could.

Julie: 25:34

Well, the thing though about podcasts is because there's the host and there's the guest, right? And those are two independent variables, right? So as the host, you can have a lot of experience. I mean, Carl, with all of your broadcast experience, you're a natural interviewer. I have a journalism background. One of the reasons why I actually send the questions before is because of the guest. Because the guest could be someone who rambles if you don't help them prepare a little bit. And so that's actually one of the reasons they either will speak in these big generalities and they can't come up with the stories. And I feel for that because not everyone can come up with specific example stories. When I started out, I was, oh my gosh, I remember being paralyzed by a question. And also that one, it was early on. I got introduced to who's a national defense correspondent who was going to be on radio. And here I it was one of my probably my first five podcasts. And I was starstruck and freaking nervous, right? And and he, you know, sent me some questions, but I was definitely, if I could have at least enough where I could have bulleted it out, that would have been helpful for me. So, and because so even now as a guest, I always try to have some bullet points. I don't write out my answers, I'm not going to read them verbatim. And some of the guests that I interview don't have public speaking experience, and people ramble out of nervousness. And so I feel that actually me just giving them some pointers of what we're going to discuss helps with the rambling.

Carl: 27:08

This is why we edit. But you can minimize your editing by having a little bit of a framework or a guideline. But I think it's um whatever works for you. And you're right, there are some individuals who are just not comfortable with speaking, but they feel they need to step up and get onto podcasts to share more about who it is that they are. So you know what you're up for when you're on the show.

Julie: 27:50

And I want to hear the the host's energy level. I want to know the closing question because usually podcast hosts will have a closing question. And I want to know what that closing question is gonna be. And so, yeah, I think it's really if you're gonna be on someone's show, honor them by listening to a few episodes beforehand so that you can get acquainted. And also they will typically share some things about the audience because I also really try to be relevant and share examples for that particular audience. For example, I was just on a podcast about women tech leaders. So I spent nine years in tech, but it's not a big part of my life now. I was bringing out all the tech examples, you know, because I was just that audience.

Carl: 28:40

Julie, oh my goodness, we could probably talk for forever and a day. Firstly, I have to congratulate you on your success, not just professionally, but in the podcasting space as a guest and now as a host. I'm so thrilled you've taken that quantum leap. It is a quantum leap to go from guesting to hosting. You're right, they are very different. Just because you're a guest doesn't mean you're cut out as a host. And if you do want to be a host, there's opportunity there for you. But understand it is definitely a journey. And Julie, I'm so thrilled with everything that you've done. So thank you for everything that you've shared today. I want to give you the opportunity, though, to share with people how can they connect with you? What's the best way for people to learn more about you or if they have questions about the work what they do? How can they connect?

Julie: 29:27

Yeah, so on social media, I am most active on LinkedIn. So please find me on LinkedIn. It's truly fam. I also do a lot of videos on YouTube. There's just these short little tips on how to practice curiosity in your life. And then you can also visit Curiosity Based. That's B A S E D dot com. That's our website, and you can find out more about what I do there. And you can just reach out to me, and we're gonna have our podcast information, the Curiosity at Work podcast, there as well.

Carl: 29:59

And we'll make Sure, those links are in the show notes as well as the link to the website and the link to the podcast, it'll be there too. And I encourage you to listen to Julie's show. And she's new in the space, so offer her some feedback. Tell her what you think of the show. Go to wherever she's posting it. If there's an opportunity to like it or share it or whatever, I know as a host, especially a new host, that helps. That speaks volumes. If you can help Julie out in that space, Julie, it has been a phenomenal conversation. Thank you for being my guest today. Before I turn you loose to go and record the next 10 podcast episodes, I'll leave you with the final thought.

Julie: 30:34

Learn in public. Learn in public. You can't be a perfectionist when you are a podcast guest or a podcast host and just believe the next time we'll be better. And so just be willing to lean into that. And it inspires other people as well to learn in public.

Carl: 30:54

I think we'll leave it right there. Julie, thank you so much for being my guest today.

Julie: 30:58

Thank you so much, Carl.

Carl: 30:59

And hey, thank you for being a part of the show today. So glad you can join us. Believe it or not, I can't work this magic by myself. So thanks to my amazing team, our audio engineer Dom Carillo, our sonic branding genius Kenton Dolborowski, and the person who works the arms. All of our arms, actually, our project manager and my trusty assistant, Julovell Tiongco, known to us here simply as July. If you like what you heard today, let us know. You can leave us a comment or review or even send us a voice note. And if you really liked it, we hope you'll share it with your friends and your colleagues. If you don't like what you heard today, well, please feel free to share it with your enemies. And if you know of someone who would make a great guest on the show, let us know about it. You can get in touch with us by going to our show notes where all of our connection points are there, including the links to our website, LinkedIn, and Facebook as well. And if you're ready to be a guest on podcasts, or even start your own show, let's have a conversation. We'll show you the simplest way to get into the podcasting space and rock it. Because after all, we're Podcast Solutions Made Simple. Catch you again next time.