What If Your Next Keynote Starts As A Podcast? with Mike Handcock

Most speakers say they want more reach, more impact, and better clients. Then they ignore the one stage that never cancels, never loses your luggage, and can introduce you to the exact people you want to serve: podcasting.

We sit down with Mike Handcock, Certified Speaking Professional Global and a leader in the Global Speakers Federation, to talk about what’s shifting in professional speaking and communication strategy right now. We get honest about how the market has changed as more events book subject matter experts who have information but not always the craft. We also dig into the risk of trend chasing, especially when audiences can get generic answers anywhere, and why the talks that land are still built on lived experience, clear ideas, and energy you can feel.

From there, we move into practical podcast strategy for speakers, coaches, and consultants. Mike shares what hosting teaches you that directly improves your stage work: asking better questions, staying calm with tech, working to time, and reading energy before it drops. We also talk about podcast guesting as a smart way to access other people’s networks, build real relationships, and turn visibility into trust, especially when your show or your guest spots are positioned around your ideal audience.

If you’ve been on the fence, you’ll hear a simple challenge: commit to 50 podcasts, learn what the process teaches you, then decide with real data. Subscribe, share this with a speaker who’s still resisting, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway or question.

Connect with Mike:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikehandcock/
Websites:
https://www.circleofexcellence.biz/
https://www.mikehandcock.net/
https://www.worldwidebusinessintelligence.com/
The Humor Advantage Book

Transcript

Welcome And Show Purpose

Carl 0:04

Welcome to Communications Connected Community, the Podcasters Podcast. This podcast takes a deep dive into modern-day communication strategy in the podcasting space. We chat with interesting people coming into podcasting and speaking space, exciting and vibrant. We also dive into the podcasting community with interest updates, like trends and topics from this ever-evolving space. It's going to be one amazing ride. Let's dive into today's episode. One of the things that I really like about podcasting is the stage. I love speaking. I didn't used to like speaking because when I was younger, I stuttered horribly. I've told that story on this podcast. If you want to go back to even episode one, I tell the story as to how I got into speaking and overcame stuttering. So definitely check out that episode. One of the things I've noticed in the podcasting space is there are still a lot of speakers who are not embracing podcasting, not nearly as much as they should. I'm on a mission to change that. And our speaker today has not only a lot of experience in the world of speaking, he also is an avid podcaster, has been for years, and is an actively and sought-after podcast host as well. Mike Handcock can be introduced in many different ways, one of only 40 speakers in over 55,000 globally to be recognized with the designation of Certified Speaking Professional Global. He is currently the vice president of the Global Speakers Federation at the recording of this episode. He's the author of 14 books with seven international bestsellers and six times Amazon number one on business and personal development. As a musician with 13 albums to his name, Mike has a number one on iTunes in 2013. He's on the board of three charities and social causes. Mike was mentioned by President Clinton, actually, for his work alongside the Sage Foundation and Clinton Global Initiative. As the chairman and founder of the Circle of Excellence, along with his business partner and wife, Landi Jac, Mike has built five companies in events, business intelligence, investments, experts institute, which operate regularly in over 20 countries. He is a sought-after podcast guest, as I've already said, an avid podcast host, a professional speaker. We are so thrilled he is here today. Mike, welcome to the podcast.

Mike 2:25

Carl, thank you so much. And hello to everybody. It's really nice to be here.

Carl 2:30

I am so thrilled you're here, my friend. And it's nice to speak to a fellow speaker. I'm a member of CAPS, the Canadian Association of Professional Speakers. You are the president or soon-to-be president of the Global Speakers Federation, of which we are a member. That's what I was trying to spit out there.

Mike 2:45

I know it's complex, right?

Carl 2:47

It's a big world, but we're connected somehow with the Global Speakers Federation for quite some time, you said. You said like 13, 14 years.

Mike 2:54

I've been on the board of the Global Speakers Federation since about 2011. I joined my home association, which is New Zealand, in 2006, the start of 2006, and then got involved as the global representative on the board. Then I never really wanted to, I'm one of these people. I never really wanted to be president. I never really wanted to get a certified speaking professional, which was the designation. But then they brought out Global Speaking Fellow. And Global Speaking Fellow to me really made sense because I've always spoken globally. I mean, an average of 20 plus countries a year. That's a good designation to have because not too many people will have that. As it now, there's only 40 people. And I think, you know, I just got more and more involved. And I think I'm like an old piece of furniture. A lot of people refer to me from time to time. Some people love me, some people don't love me. But I tend to be quite opinionated and tend to be somebody who's always got a thought about how we can do things differently. So I think that adds a level of interest to any board where you've got somebody who is a bit of an out-of-the-box thinker who wants to rattle the cage a little bit.

Carl 4:02

I definitely want to hear your opinions today, then. Why not upset the Apple cart? Congratulations on that designation. I know that as speakers, it's it's humbling to receive that honor and that designation, but I don't think we get into the speaking world podcasting space to win awards. We get in it because we love it, we want to affect change, we want to have impact on the audiences that we're speaking to.

Mike 4:24

In New Zealand, I think it's very difficult the way the rules are written in speaking for me to not come close to winning two or three awards a year just because they're based on things like how many talks you do, the income from the talks, and also where you're doing them. I haven't literally allowed myself to apply or be nominated for the last six years there. So because it's not about winning awards, it's about the difference you make. And I think people asked the question when they interviewed me for the role of what was vice president of the Global Speakers Federation. They said, Why do you want to do this and inevitably become the president? I said, because I want to have an influence on the associations of the world and their members, of which is in the many, many thousands, tens of thousands, and they have an impact on the boardrooms of the world. For me, this is about legacy. For me, this is about making a much bigger difference that I might could make in my own business as a speaker or a trainer or a coach or even a business person when you've got influence that feeds down and it has massive influence. We ran the Global Speakers Summit in Bali this year, Carl, and we had uh over 300 speakers from 35 countries come along. And I did the math on that. And in the next year, those speakers will impact over 1.5 million leaders in 35 countries around the world, or probably more than that. When you're doing that on a positive way, you literally hopefully making the world a better place and hopefully making us all communicate better between us across cultures, borders, religions, and all that sort of thing. And that's one of the reasons I do this and really wanted to be part of it.

Carl 6:12

Where did the journey for you start, though? I mean, you didn't come out of the womb and start speaking and be on this platform. So, where did this journey into speaking and having a positive impact, where did it begin for you?

Mike 6:25

I think it began when I was a teenager and I played in a band, went on to be mediocre successful. I mean, we were touring bands, supported bands like Def Leppard, Cheap Trick, Rod Stewart, you name that. I loved big stages, and I'm never far from a guitar. I mean, there's one right here sitting next to me, right? I think I just got used to crowds. I loved the stage, I loved the difference that it made. And then I went from that in my mid-20s into corporate. And then I was lucky enough to sort of end up on the senior management team of what was New Zealand's biggest financial services company. I had about four and a half thousand brokers and goodness knows how many staff underneath me reporting to me. I was doing a lot of presentations and I really enjoyed giving presentations. And then when I wanted to move out of financial services and do my own thing, it had to have this speaking element to it. And I went first and started speaking in the financial planning space globally. And then I go, oh, this is not what I want to speak about. And then I moved into more into the personal and professional development space, which is literally what I do now: leadership, entrepreneurship, those type of things. It was really came from that loving being on stage, loving the impact with a loud guitar to actually making the same impact. Now I just go to bed earlier and I don't drink anymore. So it's perfect.

How Speaking Is Changing Now

Carl 7:47

So the same lifestyle, just a few changes along the way. Kudos to that. Not everyone could say they played in a rock band that was a touring band with Def Leppard and Cheat Trick and some of those other bands that sounds like you and I both grew up with and enjoyed. So congratulations on that. The journey from there into professional speaking, I guess what I want to dive at, and I do want to roll this into podcasting too, because obviously there's been an evolution and a lot of changes since you started podcasting back in 2011. But what have you noticed as a change in your career and in your speaking that's happened, say in the last five years, but even the last 10, 15 years? What's changed or what's trending from what you're seeing out there?

Mike 8:30

As a quick snapshot, because I think we want to focus on more of the present. But for the first probably eight or nine years that I spoke, I never used any slides. And then we got into the whole slides thing in sort of from 2010 and around that area. Uh, and I still use slides today, but I think the biggest change in the last few years has been the competitiveness of our customers, which are organizations primarily, putting speakers on stage that are not professional speakers. They're subject matter experts. One of the biggest ones I can think of is Ray Kurzweil from Google, right? I mean, that guy is a highly paid professional speaker, but he actually has a full-time job at Google. You're seeing this a lot. And I speak, I'm sure you do too, Carl. I speak at a lot of conferences where I'm following somebody who's working in a job who just got given a speaking gig. And really, most of them are pretty lousy speakers and they're not at all entertaining. But that's what that's where the industry's changed. I mean, the industry's changed from, oh my goodness, I want to hear another about another person climbing Mount Everest to give me the details from that person industry who tells me what the latest AI trend is. And so from that, I've seen a lot of speakers globally become these pseudo-AI experts because that's the latest thing. Before that, they were pseudo-social media experts. And I think we should just stick to what the essence is of us. I mean, if you've got a genuine interest in AI and that's your love, then you should speak about it. But if your genuine interest is making cakes, you should be speaking about making cakes. So I think it's more competitive in that space. And then we had the whole thing through COVID where everybody went virtual speaking and invested in big home studios. We mentioned a fellow Canadian before who I know very well who did that. I know what he spent on his home studio. I'm not sure he's really using it that much these days. I think people are really getting back into live work. I mean, I can't remember the last time anybody talked to me about doing anything virtually, with the exception of podcasts and webinars, which is still a growing market.

Carl 10:45

Do you think with some of the challenges you just indicated, the craft of speaking has been watered down a little bit? The barrier of entry has been lowered to as long as you could not fog a mirror, but if you can, if you're a subject matter expert, it doesn't matter how well you speak, you can still get on stages. Do you think that waters it down a little bit?

Mike 11:04

Absolutely. And I think from this perspective, I watched a documentary once and Dave Grohl from The Foo Fighters said the days of a kid in the garage with his guitar and his mate grinding out a loud tune that they wrote are over. Because these days, those kids sit in front of a screen and use samples to put songs together. And if they can play a bit, they play over it. I think it's the same, and that's a shame. As a musician, I find that real shame. I think it's moving back, and I'll talk about that at a minute because I think the trend's going to happen in speaking as well. But I think that's also been in speaking. Also, the days of a wonderful storyteller who captures your heart and essence and brings you to tears and makes you shift your life forever, have been watered down by the fact that anybody can put a presentation together and through this medium that we're using now can build a bit of an audience and and really spew out a lot of mediocre stuff that's really probably not that helpful for most people. I mean, the obvious thing is Google. We all love Google, but if you go to Google and you Google bake a chocolate cake, and I've done this, there's a hundred last time I did it, there was 176 million recipes. Probably only a few of those really any good. So I think we've got to come back to, and it's happening in music at the moment. There's a few people I follow on YouTube. The most growing musical genre in the world in late 2024 is drumroll, country and western, followed by rock. You'd think it was trance or hip-hop or something like that. They're quite dying off at the moment. So there's a resurgence. I think people are getting sick of listening to manufactured music. My wife and I just came back from a meeting and we're on the car. She's playing some music. She's going, she's building her playlist for 2025. And she says, Like, what do you think of this song? Six and a half out of ten, I'm saying. And she goes, Why did you rate it like that? It's auto-tuned. I've heard this drumbeat in three other songs that have come out in the last six months. And I think it's that cookie-cutter approach, and we're using it in speaking at the moment. It was actually Rhonda Scarf, who's a fellow Canadian of yours, who said at the Global Speaker Summit last year, I loved her comment. I'm going to hope to do it justice. She was asked this question. She was in a panel. What do you think the future of speaking is, or something to that? Her answer was if what you're speaking about can be got off Chat GPT, then you're irrelevant.

Carl 13:34

It's unfortunate that we're seeing that now. By the way, Rhonda is a phenomenal speaker and very knowledgeable. She knows her stuff. She's the real deal. Country and rock, I'm not surprised because I would say country and rock from a music perspective are, at least contemporarily within the last 50, 60 years, are very grassed roots. Country probably before rock, but you know, we have that crossover that's happened pretty much since the 1950s, maybe earlier than that. I'm not surprised that we're getting back to our roots, and those are the samples or those are the genres that are leading the way. The other thing is that I've noticed younger generations, and maybe it's not just younger generations, maybe it's all generations, but I'm noticing younger generations sit up and take notice of things that we didn't think they would. We would think that they would be the ones who would embrace technology and they would lead technology, and they are. But these are the same young people who are Gen Z, Gen Y, even, who are doing seed to sausage, farm to table type. You're really getting back to that kind of grassroots lifestyle, unplugged environments, living off the grid, those kinds of things. So, in a way, I'm not surprised that in a music perspective, that we're going back to the grassroots as well.

Mike 14:51

Well, I think Isaac Newton said this in the 17th century. He said, every action has an equal and opposite reaction. The more people that are going to AI, the more people are going, I'm done with technology. I'm going to go do this. And I think it's the other thing as well, is that I have a saying that every strength taken to an extreme becomes a weakness. So if you become like this technical guru, you become like this antisocial person who doesn't live in the world. But if you become this full relationship person who's so socialized, you can't exist in the new world either. We've got to find a way. It's like balancing slabs. The reason we have two legs, we can't just walk on one leg. We'd hop. And, you know, these days, the idea is to start melding those. And I think the challenge for us as people who are over 30, the challenge for us is how to meld the new and the old without losing the old. Because I can still remember a time when there were no mobile phones. I grew up in that era. I grew up where I put my record on a record player and watched it go round and round and round.

Craft Versus Cookie Cutter Content

Carl 15:59

You're speaking my language. I have a vinyl collection. I used to go to a payphone if I need to make a call and put in a quarter. And then I think it later on it went up to a dollar. Anyways, the bottom line is I like how you're giving these ideas or saying that there's a way that we can merge what was old and what was new together, and we just need to figure that out. Let's let's shift gears and talk about podcasting. That's really something that I want. Obviously, that's what the show's about. I'm glad for your insights that you've shared up to this point because I think that sets the path for what I want to talk about. Podcasting's been around for over 20 years now. We've seen ups and downs in the podcasting space, huge surge during COVID because nobody had anything to do. So they were looking, or they were looking at ways of reinventing themselves and a podcast made sense. I still notice a lot of speakers, and these are speakers who went through COVID, didn't have physical stages to be on, were embracing virtual platforms. I'm still noticing though a lot of speakers who are almost putting their hands up and saying, nope, sorry, podcasts are not for me. Are you noticing that too?

Why Speakers Avoid Podcasting

Mike 17:09

And what's your thoughts on that? I think in reality, I'm gonna throw a statistic out. I think that probably 80% of speakers want nothing to do with podcasting, 20% do. And whether that's as a guest or as a host, I think you know, it's a lot of people try to be a host. I mean, we've had a podcast going since 2011, and we do one a week, but it's a big commitment. Um I've got a client who said he's from Auckland, New Zealand, and he's done really well. But during COVID, he's he's gonna launch a podcast and he's gonna commit to two years. He's a really good guy, he's got a good background, and so we said, okay, go for it, Dennis. Now he's done 680 podcasts now. I mean, that's a lot of podcasts, right? That's a lot of podcasts. He's done those in let's say it's 2025, let's say four years maximum, four years maximum. And he's doing well over one a week. And but what he's done about this, his podcast, and folks, feel free to check it out. Leadership is Changing, Denis Gianoutsos. That's a plug for him. But if you go and check it out, he's interviewing the people that he wants as his clients. It's very smart. He's interviewing CEOs of companies that he wants to consult to and speak for. And he's done really well, and he's so damn busy these days, it's not funny. And a lot of that's been created through his podcasts. I think, Carl, the answer to the question is this you have to throw your weight behind something. Whether it's YouTube, whether it's podcasting, whether it's blogs, you know, podcast is your radio, YouTube is your television station, and blogs are your newspaper and magazine articles. I think you have to throw your weight behind at least one of those.

Carl 18:51

And I'm really glad you shared that. I mean, I've been advocating for quite a while, since really taking this podcasting agency business full tilt, that speakers, at least speakers, if not most business owners, should be leveraging, like you say, YouTube podcasts or or blogs. I say podcasts only because that's a space I work in, but there's a value to it, and there should be a recognizable value to speakers because a podcast is essentially a stage. And the nice thing about podcasting is there's no lost luggage, no late flights, you're not a road warrior. There's a benefit to that, and you're always in front of your ideal audience if you've positioned it correctly.

Mike 19:32

Absolutely. And it's funny to me that more speakers don't embrace it because for years and years and years at any speaking convention, anywhere in the world, and I've been to many of them, there's always somebody saying, you've got to have a book, right? You have to have a book. Well, to me, I agree with that, by the way. But but to me, the beauty of a book is that you don't know who's reading it, right? It's a beautiful thing, a book, because you can influence and have a major impact on somebody's life without the ego going, oh, I had a major impact on that person's life. You've probably got in in Canada the software zero for accountants, right? It's all over the world. It's been one of the business success stories of the last 10 years. Started in a garage in Napier, New Zealand, by a guy called Rod Drury. I got on a plane in New Zealand one day, and Rod Drury was reading one of my books. And I didn't run up to him and go, Oh, Rod, that's my book. Do you want me to sign the cover or anything? I just walked past him. I didn't even acknowledge him, sat down in my seat and went, there it is, right? You never know. Now, have Xero ever hired me? No, they haven't. But it's fascinating to me. Plenty of people have hired me from books and from podcasts and things like that, because it's just part of them getting to know you better. And it's also part of you giving back as well and really helping people. That's why you're doing this. You're helping a lot of people. And that's why I love being a guest, because I want to help people. Sure, it's good for our brands, but in the end, we want to help people.

Carl 21:03

And it's there's something to be said too about leveraging, especially if you're doing guesting, leveraging the power of other people's networks. I mean, that's one of the reasons why, as speakers, we just don't set up our own stages and speak on them. That's great. But we go and speak on other stages all over the world. It's the same thing when you're guesting. You're in other networks, you're connecting with people with your messaging and your ideas and supporting them in ways that you wouldn't have done necessarily.

Mike 21:31

Yeah, last year I made a real commitment to being a podcasting guest. I did it, but like I was getting near one or two here. So in the last year, I've really probably done, I guess on average, three a week where I've been a guest on podcasts, and it was with that exact thought in mind. I want to access other people's audiences, and it's just to see what happens. It's just my curiosity to see what happens. And it's been fascinating at good friends with some of. Podcast hosts and things like that. A couple of them have become clients over the last couple of years, over the last year as well. But more importantly, it's been fascinating who I'm seeing come through, particularly my LinkedIn, because that's normally a link that I give. Who's and I go, Oh, that's podcast I did with that guy in Texas or something like that. So it's fascinating.

Carl 22:20

I actually have a story to share, and it's along the same lines where I had a guest on my show from the UK. It was a random reach out through a guesting agency. And uh his name's William Beust, by the way. And I had no knowledge of who William was, had a great conversation, great interview. I know you know who he is, and I know who he is now too, but I didn't know who this guy was, interview him. He was a great guest. It is to date the most listened to episode of the show. Not only that, I had a chance to meet him in 2023 at the CAPS Convention in Quebec City. And wouldn't you know it, saw him again in Costa Rica at the CAPS Convention in 2024, and we're having a follow-up conversation whenever he's finished skiing. Just say, hey, let's do a check-in, let's do an update. That connection wouldn't have happened if his agency hadn't reached out to get on my podcast. But if we didn't have that positive experience, none of that happened. If I wasn't actively looking for guests and he wasn't actively looking to be on shows, that connection wouldn't have happened. It might have been years before I met William. I might not have even formally met William. And yeah, he is a phenomenal, phenomenal guy. That's the power. What would you say to speakers who are maybe on the fence? You know, maybe we've encouraged them a little bit. Maybe I should check with this podcasting thing. What would you say to speakers who are maybe still a little bit hesitant about embracing podcasting a little bit? What would you say to them?

Mike 23:45

I think what a host of a podcast learns through hosting is that they learn how to ask great questions. And boy oh boy, if you the quality of your life comes down to the quality of your questions. You know, you ask great questions, you get great answers. Great answers give you great information. Great information allows you to make great decisions. You ask poor questions, you get poor answers, poor information, poor decision. So as a host, it's really refining your ability to ask questions. And I can tell as a guest who's a good host or not. Obviously, you've been a guest as well. Sometimes you get off the podcast, you go, they just didn't ask that question that they should have, right? And so would have made it a great interview. So I think that's the first thing. The second thing, it's not always easy to use your technology. That's a fun thing. So I did a podcast this week, in fact, with a guy from Florida, and everything that could have wronged for him, his laptop had crashed a week before he bought a brand new laptop, but this thing was playing up. By the way, it wasn't a Mac. And through that process, I watched him really just laugh it off and go, because his picture would disappear, and then I couldn't hear him for a while, and then there'd be some fuzz and stuff like this. So, what it teaches you to deal with the inevitable gremlins that happen in technology. And for most of us speakers, we get on a stage and we're not going to get starstruck enough to forget what we're going to say. We can generally remember our stories, maybe not in the right order, but we can remember them. But the thing that always trips us up is the technology and things like this, right? So I'm always double and triple checking technology the day before at venues and things like that. So I think it teaches you how to deal with tech, how to be relaxed, how to work to time, how to understand. And this is the biggest one, I think, Carl, is as a host, it teaches you how to understand energy. As a guest, I'm already aware that I've been answering this question now for a good minute and a half and I need to shut up and hand it back to you. But as a host, right, it helps you realize when something's starting to fade in energy when you need to pick it up, or when something's too much and in people's face need to pull it back. And that's the same as when you're on a stage as well. Because being on a stage and being a good speaker is not about having a great keynote or a great story. It's about how you manage the energy of the audience whilst you're giving that keynote.

Where Podcasting Is Heading

Carl 26:09

Great answer. I love it. Thank you so much. The talk was ticking. In the radio world, I would have had a program director going, eh, no, that's too long, too long a break. But no, great. Mike, thank you again for sharing that wisdom and that that knowledge. I greatly appreciate it. We've already talked a bit about where speaking is heading or where we think speaking is going to head. What about podcasting? Where in your experience do you see podcasting heading in the next, say, two to five years?

Mike 26:35

I don't think it's going to diminish. I think it's going to become more and more and more. And I was thinking about it when you asked, when we talked off camera about um, and you said you want to dig into some questions on my views on podcasting. And I thought, hmm, that's good because my jury is sort of out on podcasting because I don't listen to podcasts. I'm not an avid listener. And then I, as I was doing that, I go, hang on, Mike, that's not true. You don't listen to podcasts, but you watch an awful lot of them on YouTube. So I think even I'm a convert these days. I used to I couldn't stand Joe Rogan. But you know, I've got to even like Joe Rogan. I was really interested with his meeting with Mark Zuckerberg in the past week, and I watched parts of that and things like that. I thought found it funny that the whole of the world's now talking about has Mark Zuckerberg really got a perm? Is that coming back in? All this sort of thing. So it just elicits all these emotions for people. So I think podcasting's not going away. It's going to grow. If I look at my wife, Landi, I mean, she's listening to, I can hear her. She's listening to a podcast now in the other room as I'm talking to you. She's an avid podcaster. She'll be doing something. I don't know what she's doing, but she doesn't sit there and listen to them. But she listens to them as she does things. And this is when she first gets up in the morning. She's got her favorite podcasters she listens to. And as she goes through her day, she picks up other things and she's constantly doing it. So I think podcasting is here to grow.

Connect With Mike And Next Steps

Carl 28:00

I love it. And I agree. I think we've been through the upswing during COVID. You know, we've seen a bit of a decline, but I think that there's an upswing that's coming again and some changes and opportunities for people, certainly with video. As you said, as you indicated, there's the visual component now. But I think there's also huge opportunities for even improving and making better the audio component of it and keeping it portable. Not to say we're going to keep it only audio as it started that way, but we're going to see a lot of different variations of it. So, oh my goodness, Mike, this has been a phenomenal conversation. I do give you the opportunity though to if people want to connect with you after today, what's the best way for them to reach out?

Mike 28:40

Simply to go to our website, Carl, which is circleofexcellence.biz B-I-Z, and they can connect with me there. Otherwise, they can find me on LinkedIn, Mike Handcock, with a D in the in the name. And uh, there's not too many of us in the world. I used to be the only one on LinkedIn, but no more. So, but I think our website's a great place for people to go.

Carl 29:01

Mike Handcock, it's been a great conversation. I'm looking forward to meeting you in person in Halifax. Before I turn you loose, though, I'll give you the final thought.

Mike 29:12

My final thought is to when we specifically talk about podcasting, I think do what Denis did. If you're on the fence, either get off the fence and say no or jump in and say, I'm going to do 50 podcasts. And then after 50, I'm going to see how I feel about it. And then make a decision. Is it right for you or not? Doing that. You're going to learn so much about the world by the interviews from guests. You're going to get feedback from them that's going to help your business and your life grow. That's what I would suggest.

Closing Thanks And Listener Actions

Carl 29:43

Mike, that's a great place to leave it. Thank you very much. Mike Handcock, I really appreciate you being my guest today. Thanks, and bye, everyone. Thanks, Carl. And hey, thank you for being a part of the show today. So glad you could join us. Believe it or not, I can't work this magic by myself. So thanks to my amazing team, our audio engineer Dom Carillo, our Sonic branding genius Kenton Dobrowolski, and the person who works the arms all of our arms actually, our project manager and my trusty assistant, Julovell Tiongco, known to us here simply as July. If you like what you heard today, let us know if you need us a comment or review or just a voice note. And if you really liked it, we hope you'll share it with your friends and your colleagues. If you don't like what you heard today, well, please feel free to share it with your enemies. And if you know someone who would make a great guest on the show, let us know about it. You can get in touch with us by going to our show notes where all of our connecting points are there, including the links to our website, LinkedIn, and Facebook as well. And if you're ready to be a guest on podcasting, or even start your own show, let's have a conversation. We'll show you the simplest way to get into the podcasting space and rock it. Because after all, we're Podcast Solutions Made Simple. Catch a game next time.